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The public school system

WarbirdsWarbirds Member Posts: 16,499 ✭✭✭✭
edited March 2006 in General Discussion
Is the idea of the public school system out of date with modern America? I was reading another thread where one person who responded was a school teacher, and spoke of frequent sensorship directed at that poster because of the posters' political views. This allows an agenda to be tought to children as those running the school see fit. It seems to me if you wanted your kids to learn under ruling of propaganda you could send them to a private school that fit the way you wanted your child to be educated. My girlfriends' undergraduate degree is in English Education, and during her last semester she had to spend it teaching 8th grade kids. Her major problem that she mentioned all the time was that parents don't help thier kids out, and the "No Child Left Behind" program is ruining public education. Anybody have any thoughts? I don't have kids so it doesn't effect me, the other thread just got me wondering what you parents think of the public school system.

Comments

  • fu007danfu007dan Member Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm still a student, but I agree completely. The school systems around where I live are filling up with these kids coming up from the city, who are for the majority wannabe gang members. Too much time is needed to help these kids catch up, than to teach the people who actually get it.
  • p3skykingp3skyking Member Posts: 25,750
    edited November -1
    The world will always need ditchdiggers too. If they can rap, that's a plus.

    Intelligent kids will learn regardless.
  • oldemagicsoldemagics Member Posts: 5,755 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Dave W.
    I don't have kids so it doesn't effect me, the other thread just got me wondering what you parents think of the public school system.


    think again Dave,
    dont know how old you are, but some of these kids are gonna be the decision makers as you hit your retirement and maybe sooner! still think it doesnt affect you? you really want these mind controlled idiot kids makeing the decisions for you and your future the way things are goin already?
  • zipperzapzipperzap Member Posts: 25,057
    edited November -1
    Urban school systems are a failure - and have been for 40 years!
    That is no excuse in such a country as ours, Disgusting at best
    and absolutely deplorable at worst!

    Kids who disrupt should be clean-* out of school and set
    to work for six months doing unpleasant work or given job
    training for something worthwhile. To keep them in the
    system to disrupt is criminal. [:(!][:(!][:(!]
    chewtwigzz.gif
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,202 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    For the idea of the USA as written long ago; IMO its too late. We are on an accelerated path of self destruction just like the Romans did 1,500 years ago. History does indeed repeat itself.

    All great Societies fall from the decay within. When moral and ethical coruption reaches critical mass the society falls.

    We are there.
  • jbjm04jbjm04 Member Posts: 263 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    speaking from the point of view of someone going to college to become a teacher, I say that public education needs more money to do its part. Here in N.C. everytime they give an extra $50 per kid to the schools they cut $125 somewhere else from education. Same as in D.C "It's hard to make chicken salad, with chicken S**t" enough said[:D]
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,202 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jbjm04
    speaking from the point of view of someone going to college to become a teacher, I say that public education needs more money to do its part. Here in N.C. everytime they give an extra $50 per kid to the schools they cut $125 somewhere else from education. Same as in D.C "It's hard to make chicken salad, with chicken S**t" enough said[:D]


    Spoken like a true liberal.

    Money does not, will not and can not solve social ills that are caused by lax morals and ethics. Education is ther to teach the willing, observant, well disiplined child and young adult. It is not ther to teach one how to wipe the * after defecation.
  • iluvgunsiluvguns Member Posts: 5,351
    edited November -1
    YES...public schools are out of date with modern America! Same with with tenure for teachers. If you can't flush out the crap from the system, how can you improve the system? The governmets answer is to throw money at the problem and hope it gets better. That doesn't work. The only solution is to throw the whole system in the crapper and start over. What whizzes me off is that I pay a HUGE percentage of my taxes to the education system in this country...and I pay to send my kids to private school. So...I am paying twice to have my kids educated in the manner I feel appropriate. BRING ON VOUCHERS! Public school administrators HATE the voucher idea. Why? Because it takes money from their precious institutions. Screw em! I wish somebody had the financial backing to sue the system somehow and see where that would lead as far as vouchers.
  • dakotashooter2dakotashooter2 Member Posts: 6,186
    edited November -1
    quote:Here in N.C. everytime they give an extra $50 per kid to the schools they cut $125 somewhere else from education.

    Actually what I see a lot is that the "extra" funding seems to go to "special needs" programs. Looking at our teacher roster in the newspaper each fall the "special needs" teachers outnumber the classrom teachers and get paid more besides.In other words you have 1/2 the teachers(SN)working with 1% of the kids (of which probably 25% or less see any benfit)any taking 60% of the payroll. Not good business. The No Child Left Behind Program is doing a GREAT job...... of taking the top and bottom students of a class and making them average.
  • Locust ForkLocust Fork Member Posts: 30,939 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I watched a show the other day....I think it was 20/20 with John Stocil? It was a PERFECT example of what the answer is...we need to let the money go with the child. If we send our kids to a school, there is where the money is spent. The whole idea is that the school systems COMPETE FOR YOUR CHILD!!!

    They made an example of what is going on using the phone company. Remember what the phone company was like when they didn't have to make you happy to get your money? Giving money and more money to the schools was PROVEN WRONG by one school system that spend millions of dollars (large new buildings with swimming pools and up to date computers.) That was a real disaster....test scores were poor and they thought they were going to be the ones to show we need to give more money to the schools.

    Other countries were given small exams and then the same tests were given to our high school students....you KNOW how it went. The other countries children were making fun of how stupid our kids must be with such poor scores. It upset me a bit (being a mother of three) but, what can I do? I am not the one who decides what they have to do. I do a lot of work with my kids...I even home schooled my oldest for her first three years after she entered Kindergarden and she was OBVIOUSLY way ahead of the class and was turning into a bit of a hand full for her teachers (bored students are usually problems for the teachers.)

    We all know something else has to happen. I think the public is riding on the glory of our grandfathers....they accomplished a lot and made this country a great power. We are less and less that place they worked so hard to give to us. If we cannot at least find a way for our kids to "keep up" with the rest of the world....what will happen? I don't want to think about it.
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  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    This seems a good place to insert this. The fed-gov propaganda camps you send your flesh and blood to work really hard to destroy any chance that they actually start to think....slaves work better when they are stupid.



    Where is the outrage?
    Frosty Wooldridge

    As a teacher, I sat dumbfounded last May 16, 2005, when the Rocky Mountain News inked a story, "What Happened?" to a stunned Denver, Colorado audience. In a five year study starting in 1999 in Denver Public Schools, 5,663 students started the eighth grade. Five years later, only 1,884 graduated from high school. That's a 65 percent drop out/flunk out rate! That's pathetic, if not frightening.
    What was the cause? First of all, 30,000 illegal aliens, speaking 40 different languages, attended Denver schools. Our classrooms suffered thousands of kids functionally illiterate in English with parents functionally illiterate in English and Spanish. The classrooms featured so much incompatible diversity that it created horrific tension, stabbings and death. Thus, American kids suffered a profoundly dumbed-down educational process. One in five teachers quit or transferred out of those Denver classrooms every nine month cycle during those five years.

    Last week, the Denver Post announced that 30 percent of teachers in Denver schools were not coming back next year. This is a nationwide travesty. Why? As a teacher, I taught in the inner city in the 1970s. It's exasperating beyond understanding to walk into a classroom where children suffer learning disabilities, broken homes, teen pregnancies at 14, 15, 16, multiple languages and violent confrontations with other ethnic groups. It's impossible to teach. I left my idealism in the ghetto and escaped to a suburban school. But, today, teachers can't escape because over 1.5 million illegal alien students with more than 100 languages attend our kids' schools nationwide. We witness a national breakdown in education. Last week, Superintendent Roy Romer of Los Angeles public schools resigned in frustration and defeat. California schools match the violence of a war zone.

    Can you imagine such a failure rate across the country? Can you imagine the consequences of an illiterate generation leading this Republic into the 21st century? Folks, this country won't make it. Where is the outrage?

    It takes four aspects for a free and democratic society to maintain itself. It requires a highly educated population that can write, read, think and vote intelligently. It takes a similar moral code whereby everyone adheres to the common good. It requires a similar code of ethics whereby citizens adhere to honesty, doing what is right and maintaining those ethics throughout the social fabric. Finally, it takes a similar language that allows citizens to discuss, debate and resolve problems. We compromise all four with an invasion exceeding four million new people into the USA annually-20 million illegals to date and climbing. We allow the disintegration of our nation without a whimper. Where is the outrage?

    Last Monday, February 20, 2006, the Rocky Mountain News reported, "Mile-High Drug Hub" making Denver the leading center for drug distribution in the United States. It's part of MS-13 Gang's dispersal of $128 billion in drugs crossing our border with Mexico every year. Ironically, Congress guards South Korea's border with 37,000 troops with our billions in tax dollars, pats down gray-haired ladies at our airports, spends $80 billion annually on the war on drugs, but leaves our border unguarded allowing that $128 billion in drugs to cross year after year. Additionally, terrorists from any country can walk over the Mexican border with a 99 percent chance of succeeding. Where is the outrage?

    With a growing illegal alien population exceeding 300,000 in Colorado, the state House legislators on Wednesday of last week defeated six bills to stop illegal alien migration. One particular bill, HB 1134, would have given cops the ability to arrest, detain and deport illegals. It was soundly defeated after dozens of citizens, including this Coloradan, testified to support the bill's passage.

    I demanded, "We are tired of being collateral damage for illegal aliens. We're tired of being raped, killed, robbed and our schools being trashed by multiple languages while our medical systems take better care of illegals than our own citizens."

    Representative Francesca Natividad Coleman remarked that it was a Federal issue. I retorted, "We're the ones getting killed and raped here locally and we're tired of it." Last year, three Coloradans were killed by illegals; Greeley, Colorado suffered 270 hit and run car accidents alone; eight rapes by illegal aliens in Boulder and thousands of robberies. Where is the outrage?

    To top off the crisis in our Denver schools, the Rocky Mountain News reported the next day, February 21, 2006, "Welfare Surges 45%" with an increase of 4,743 cases. They said it was tough job hunting, but neglected to mention that 300,000 illegal aliens in Colorado stole jobs from Coloradans in every sector: drywall, construction, landscaping, fast food, house painting, janitorial, paving and dozens of other jobs formerly worked by Coloradans. Where is the outrage?

    Denver Mayor Hickenlooper hired illegal aliens long before he was mayor and one of his illegal employees, Raul Gomez-Garcia, killed Denver police officer Don Young last May. Hickenlooper stood in direct violation of federal laws and could have been fined $2,000.00 per illegal alien hired (estimated at 70 working in his restaurants) and he could have gone to prison for five years. Governor Owens actually endorsed a booklet showing illegal aliens how to imbed themselves in Colorado. He aided and abetted illegal aliens, but didn't receive a slap on the wrist. Where is the outrage?

    Since it's happening in my state with 300,000 illegal aliens, can you imagine what is happening in California with three million? Or, North Carolina with one million? How about Illinois with one million illegals? How about Texas with 1.5 million? I know Texans pay over $4.1 billion annually for educating their massive load of student illegals. Where is the outrage?

    We're being colonized with over nine million illegal alien Mexicans crashing our schools, medical systems, language, culture, parks, tax and welfare systems. One look at the headlines of major newspapers across the country echoes and mirrors the Rocky Mountain News. Where is the outrage?

    It stupefies me beyond comprehension that Americans sit back and watch this invasion of their country without any outrage. Worse, without any response! More than that--without a concern for their own kids' future! Even more horrific, the line of immigrants from Mexico (and the world) shows no sign of stopping, as the number of Mexicans grows from their current 106 million to 200 million in this century.

    As I open this can of worms weekly; as I expose this accelerating national crisis weekly; as you experience its quickening day by day-I would think the outrage would reach fantastic levels. But it is not! In fact, Bush, Congress and governors of all 50 states-not only watch it happen-they actively aid and abet it. Arlan Specter of Pennsylvania wants to add another one to two million legal immigrants annually. Senators John McCain and Ted Kennedy want to give amnesty to 20 million illegals and add more in a guest worker program. Utah's Chris Cannon welcomes millions of Mexicans as he encourages their takeover of our country. His sidekick Senator Orrin Hatch mirrors that sentiment. Representative Joe Baca of California actively promotes the takeover of California by Mexico as he endorses "Reconquista of Aztlan." As Mark Twain said, "Suppose you were an idiot; and suppose you were a member of Congress; but then, I repeat myself." Twain got it right, but where is the outrage?

    While 85 to 95 percent of the American public wants our borders secured, they stand around quietly sucking their thumbs while doing nothing. However, the outrage and arrogance of millions of illegal alien migrants in America advances like Paris, France's recent experience with immigration-10,000 fire bombed cars and a month-long conflagration! We watched stupidly as if it won't happen to us. Think again! Of the thousands of emails I receive, the worst and the most frightening ones are from citizens who tell me, "Keep your powder dry!"
  • pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,846 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Where is the outrage?
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,473 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Public Education.. The Politicians nightmare.. Just look at the change in education in the last 30 years.

    1. Now both parents are working and children are turnkey coming home.

    2. There may not be 2 parents in the home Or Grandma is taking care of them with homework..

    3. There's more " Subjects " now to teach. So more subjects mean less time a day on the IMPORTANT ones...

    4. Now there's more separation of students... AHD, AAHD, Learning disabilities THE PARENTS GETTING MONEY OFF OF FROM OUR GOVERNMENT..

    5. Class sizes are smaller...

    I could go on and on... My wife teaches 4th grade with 20 students.. Over half of them are in and out of her classroom a day going to different specialist a day in the school.. Her contract is for 180 days of school to teach, although she will actually teach somewhat way less because of the hours and days taken away from her for other reasons.
  • iluvgunsiluvguns Member Posts: 5,351
    edited November -1
    Locust Fork...You are right, that was a GREAT show on about a month or so ago. And Stocil (sp?) was DEAD ON with letting the money go with the child. Heck...In some cities they actually have to have LOTTERIES for kids to get into the best schools. What does that tell the parents and kids who lose? "Well, Junior, looks like you are going to have to attend the crappy school this year, buy maybe next year we will get lucky."
  • tsavo303tsavo303 Member Posts: 8,656 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    +1!!!!!!!!!!
    We need voucher now.
    Govt does not do any domestic things well, Why should the educate my child?

    quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
    I watched a show the other day....I think it was 20/20 with John Stocil? It was a PERFECT example of what the answer is...we need to let the money go with the child. If we send our kids to a school, there is where the money is spent. The whole idea is that the school systems COMPETE FOR YOUR CHILD!!!

    They made an example of what is going on using the phone company. Remember what the phone company was like when they didn't have to make you happy to get your money? Giving money and more money to the schools was PROVEN WRONG by one school system that spend millions of dollars (large new buildings with swimming pools and up to date computers.) That was a real disaster....test scores were poor and they thought they were going to be the ones to show we need to give more money to the schools.

    Other countries were given small exams and then the same tests were given to our high school students....you KNOW how it went. The other countries children were making fun of how stupid our kids must be with such poor scores. It upset me a bit (being a mother of three) but, what can I do? I am not the one who decides what they have to do. I do a lot of work with my kids...I even home schooled my oldest for her first three years after she entered Kindergarden and she was OBVIOUSLY way ahead of the class and was turning into a bit of a hand full for her teachers (bored students are usually problems for the teachers.)

    We all know something else has to happen. I think the public is riding on the glory of our grandfathers....they accomplished a lot and made this country a great power. We are less and less that place they worked so hard to give to us. If we cannot at least find a way for our kids to "keep up" with the rest of the world....what will happen? I don't want to think about it.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    God willing, my kids will never set foot in a public school. We are homeschooling at this point. My daughter get's plenty of social activity with church and community sports leagues. There are quite a few homeschool groups that get together for field trips and other activities as well.
  • tsavo303tsavo303 Member Posts: 8,656 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't want my kids sent to state run indoctination centers either.
    I saw where two of our teachers in Atlanta could not pass the ASVAB, and they are teaching our kids!
  • ladyhunterladyhunter Member Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    got my two out of public schools a couple of yrs ago my youngest is 14 yrs old was on a 3rd grade level in the 6th grade she is now on a 9th grade level in the 8th grade, my oldest will be gradutating (sp) next yr one yr early the school they go to is a work at your own pace no way would i let mine go back to public school
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,473 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am enjoying reading some of these responses. First of all to correct the public education system Qualified Teachers are needed. My wife taught in a school system that hired their own graduates from College Who went to the same district. If they were average students and went to a second class college and graduated the school district would hire them. Hummm... A, C student in HS teaching stuff they still did not know...Amazing. So how smart do you think the students were?? Thats right, dumber than the C grade Teacher. And them same Teachers would not better themselves with extra college courses to improve their education. Frightening, just a bacholors degree to Teach. Bottom of the payscale and no incentive... My wife is just the opposite. She has her bachelor's degree, Masters degree, Masters + 30 degree, National Board Certification in Elementary Education ( which allows her to Teach anywhere in the U.S.A ) and is currently working on her Ph.d ( which she is in the 5th year doing ). She will soon be out of the classroom and working for the State Department.
  • WarbirdsWarbirds Member Posts: 16,499 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Interesting point select-fire, a "C" student, now teaching isn't going to make for a great outcome.

    Also sounds like your wife could win the annual gunbroker spelling bee!
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,473 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    BTW, she told that District to take a hike. SC pays an incentive to National board certified teachers. Her old district would pay a one time $500 bonus AFTER 3 additional years. Her new District here in Columbia ( which has quite a few more qualified Teachers ) Pays her a bonus of $5000 each year from the Distict AND $7500 from the State Dept. That is $12,500 more a year.. Nothing frustrates her more than working with unqualified Teachers. She is currently doing in house training, and extra work for the District to help bring these Teachers up to speed. However SC just passed legislation to WEED OUT the bad Teachers by Testing them. A lot will not make the grade OR have to take courses so they will pass the State test so they can still teach. At that point THEN the results will start showing in the children. Now your original question... She is a walking dictionary [:)]
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    I respect little about this once great country any more.

    However..an educator that recognizes that the NEA is a Socialist, dispicable pile of dung..and has taken the trouble to actually learn HOW to teach...has my respect.
  • fu007danfu007dan Member Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree with all of you, going to a public school still. I can confirm that only about 50% of teachers should be allowed to teach. By the way, I don't live in the city, I live on the outskirts of the suberbs, meaning there is plenty of woods around here. but still there are plenty of trouble making kids from the city. Something needs to be done. Sadly, I don't want to know what my generation is going to do to worsen this country when we're in charge.
  • Flyin_PaulieFlyin_Paulie Member Posts: 857 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    One can't cover every arguement in this post with just a paragraph or two. My take is this:

    If you are unhappy with the quality of teachers, raise hell with the school board and get rid of them (or the school board)...
    Schools weren't designed to raise your kids..That is your job..
    If they screw-up in school, it is your job to straighten them out, not the teacher's, it may be their job to tell you about your kid screwing up and don't gripe about it.
    Realize that not all our kids are "little darlings" and deal with it the best way possible.
    By the way, I'm not a teacher, but I hate whining and have to respond. This should heat this forum up a little (which is what I intended)[:D][:D][:D]
  • Locust ForkLocust Fork Member Posts: 30,939 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I wish I could still homeschool our three, but things aren't where I can. I have them in the school that I graduated from (scary.) Its a lot better than the schools near where I work....no real crime...a few bad kids. Everyone knows everybody and what prescriptions your mom takes and what your brother does....etc. Small towns have their up-side. The down sides are a little harder to explain. Nobody has really EVER done a lot with themselves from our town....just fall into jobs that seem to pay the bills and you aren't really aware of just WHAT it is you are missing...but you know there is something.

    The money following the students...and not being limited to where you live and zones for certain people MAY give a little "choice" to places like ours. Everyone who lives in our area drives past schools that may give a little leg up to their students. We all work and pay taxes...shop in these areas and go home to the areas that seem to be a little behind. Sometimes I wonder if I would send my kids to a bigger school and risk the larger groups with all of the problems they seem to have, but just to have the CHOICE would be nice.
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  • stanmanstanman Member Posts: 3,052
    edited November -1
    quote:We're being colonized with over nine million illegal alien Mexicans crashing our schools, medical systems, language, culture, parks, tax and welfare systems.
    GW has a solution for all this.
    Make them all LEGAL aliens ............... THAT will cure the problem!![:(!]
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