Resizing Bullets

songdog

I have a 257 ackley with the 40 degree shoulder on the case. When i bought the rifle i got about 150 cases from him. Through firing i have split out and lost cases here and there. I went to a gun show and bought some 257 roberts loads for a pretty cheap price. I know that i should be able to fire form these cases but the bolt will not close when i have these bullets in the barrel. Is there any way that i can just buy some 7x57 cases and use a neck die to reform the cases so that i will be able to at leasst fit them in the rifle to fire form them? I am really running low on cases, so i need to do this fairly quick. Thanks for all of the replies.songdog

v35

Why not run the Roberts brass through yourfull length sizer, check for max case length and trim if necessary then prime, put in 10 gr H2400, no bullet or cornmeal, point skyward and fireform?Let us know how you make out.

v35

P.S. The reloads you bought may have come from a bigger chamber and not been FL sized.Pull the bullets & powder and resize. No sense wasting good bullets just to fireform.

songdog

I have tried roberts cases to fire form but the bolt will not lock down. When i try to resize the cases with afuyll length die it wants to rip the head of the case off 8 out of 10 times. I would think that if i used 7x57 cases i should be able to at least neck the cases to the right angle and then fire form them. 7x57 are the exact same size cases buit the bullet is a different dioameter. So i would think that this would work.what does anyone else think, Thanks for your replies.songdog

cpermd

Get some CerroSafe and make a cast and see what the hell is wrong.Forget these other answers and do actual measurements.cpermd

Iconoclast

I'm not conversant w/ this particular item and my conversion references don't seem to cover this particular variation, but I have created a bunch of altered brass over the years and from your comment about the 80% rim / head separations, IMHO there's too much happening at once. Is there some way you can do the re-forming in at least two steps? I'm guessing you don't do enough w/ the rifle to justify a set of case-form dies from RCBS or CH4D? I get real nervous when it sounds like ppl are forcing things . . . it can lead to some real trouble. You may indeed need to fireform at some point, but it really sounds like you have to do more w/ the brass before you get to that point. At this point, cpermd is making the most sense, because we are all making stabs in the dark. BTW, to switch to 'nit mode,' you are resizing cases, not bullets. Always hate it when one of the PC media types refers to ammo as 'bullets' and I'm sure you don't want to sound like Peter Jennings.[This message has been edited by Iconoclast (edited 12-20-2001).]

songdog

Sorry Iconoclast- I did not realize my F@#k up until I had hit the enter key. I have invested in a set of RCBS dies and I have a seating die, full length resizer, Neck resizer. Maybe it is the lube in which i use that causes the cases to pull apart. I use RCBS CASE SLICK before putting the cases through the dies. What about spraying the inside of the cases as well. Do you think that this could fix the problem?Once agian thanks for the input.songdog

v35

If you're pulling heads off cases while resizing from 7mm or 257 Roberts you have a problem with your sizing die or lube or you're not doing it right. When you have a problem, do easiest things first.First check to see if your die is scored or rusted. If it is and can't be polished bright-then chuck it. Second: get a tin of Hornady sizing lube and rub a VERY thin film on the entire body of the brass except the shoulder. You may get a tiny wrinkle up at the shoulder but you wont pull heads off. Lube collects at the shoulder in the die and will wrinkle the case shoulder. When you start seeing wrinkles, the die has to be cleaned and lube in the neck area needs to be cut back. In my experience most of the effort in resizing involves the rear inch or inch and a half of the case. This area needs to be positively lubricated.

Iconoclast

Sdog - It's not clear from your post if you have the case-form dies in addition to reloading dies or not. Won't comment further there until you clarify. The point about checking for scratches / rust in your dies is well taken. For my heavy duty forming, I use Imperial Sizing Wax. My subjective impression is that it works better than a regular lubricant in this application. If you are reducing neck diameter from .284 to .257, I'd bet good money you need to ream the inside of the neck before final sizing. That extra neck brass has to go somewhere and if you are trying to pull the stem back through after reducing the neck diameter, this could be part of the reason you are encountering so much resistance.

songdog

Thanks Iconoclast, and yes i do have a "special" reforming die for necks. I have not tried reeming though. I will giave that a try ahd see how that goes. Thanks again.songdog

17mach4

According to Ackley in his manuals for shooters and reloaders he just used new FACTORY .257 Roberts ammunition and fired them in his chambers to make his improved brass. And for gosh sakes measure the inside of the necks before you try to ream them.

17mach4

Sorry for Above post, after re-reading the question my answer stunk!!

Iconoclast

Sdog - If you have the case-form dies, I would check w/ the supplier to determine if they can supply a reaming die w/ reamer. Before you invest, though, check your neck ID measurement to be certain. And truly, you should seriously consider cpermd's suggestion of a chamber cast. We can give you ideas, but the answers come a lot easier when you can hold things in your hand to examine & measure. Good luck.[This message has been edited by Iconoclast (edited 12-21-2001).]

turbo

Say not to interupt the good advise,but, the Roberts 257 has a 20 degree shoulder and a case length of 2.23, excatly the same length as the Ackley. although the case length on both are the same, the shoulder difference requires the Ackley``````````` case to be longer so that when you form it with the 40 degree shoulder it will draw the neck back thereby making the case shorter,than 2.23; this may explains why you kept spliting cases,(head space problem) you may have had old hand formed Roberts cases. So if you take and diassemble you reloads, and start trimming on the cases, your going to wind up with even shorter cases. Because when you reform the case, with the dies, from 20 degrees to 40 degrees, you'll pull the neck back, and wind up with a shorter, case lebgth. The other factor is the ductibility of the brass, some brass is harder and more brittle, thats why you need to heat treat the brass before forming cases, in some instances. This will help in drawing the case, especially when fire forming.The fellow I know, that fireforms these type cases, keeps an old milled barrel specially for this caliber, and thats the only way he does it. Cpermd, has the right advise, cast and measure all the critical areas; then you'll be able to figure this one out. The die set you need is the RCBS 5500 series 7mmx57 IMP 40 degree.Be safe, rather than sorry..Good shooting.PS: The their are two, differences between both of these cartridges, Taper, on the Roberts from rim .473 to .429 @ shoulder; and the Ackley is.474 @ rim to .457 @ shoulder, and neck diameter .290 or Roberts and .288 for the Ackley. But I would be concerned about case lebgth. Good luck,[This message has been edited by turbo (edited 12-21-2001).][This message has been edited by turbo (edited 12-21-2001).]