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question for military guys
KSUmarksman
Member Posts: 10,705 ✭✭✭
Related to the subject of the Sikh dentist being out of uniform...
in your experience, just how "military" are military hospitals, MASH units, etc etc?
Personally I have never been in the military but I have been in a civilian OR as a student/observer...so I imagine that a lot of the military discipline gets shelved in favor of practicality of the medical profession. IMO surgical teams already run with military precision in the civilian ER/OR though.
So what are your impressions about the matter?
in your experience, just how "military" are military hospitals, MASH units, etc etc?
Personally I have never been in the military but I have been in a civilian OR as a student/observer...so I imagine that a lot of the military discipline gets shelved in favor of practicality of the medical profession. IMO surgical teams already run with military precision in the civilian ER/OR though.
So what are your impressions about the matter?
Comments
Camp Pendelton was very Military.
Balboa was much like a civilian Hospital, but that could be because of the Number of retired Vets it served.
I had a dentist perform oral surgery on my while reading out of a manual about how to do it.
This issue is far more significant than some are making it out to be. The Army is a volunteer force. If you don't want to, or cannot' meet their qualifications you are out of luck. Don't join. A stupid precedent has now been set...and it will be abused. Just watch.
The Sikhs I have known are first rate people, and DAMN good soldiers. Their religion has 5 physical manifestations of their faith- the head covering is removed in public only in deep mourning- usually the death of parent, wife, or child. It is a core tenet of the faith, and not a casual thing. If you look at his right wrist, I'll bet you there is a metal bracelet there.
I have had Jewish soldiers that would wear a skull cap on certain religious days while in garrison, LDS soldiers that wear the undergarments required of their religion, for YEARS mess halls had fish on Fridays as a nod to the Catholics, and there is a St. Barbara's medal on my dogtag chain to this day- Patron saint of those that fool with explosives.
FWIW, Sikh battalions carried out bayonet charges in WW II wearing those turbans rather than helmets.
One of Kiplings stories about the Brits fighting the Germans in East Africa had the Sikh Halvidar (Sgt) asking his British Lieutenant why they were fighting with rather awkward rules of engagement. "Why do you not call forth the Gurkha? Call forth the Sikh- and your enemies shall come to you with their foreheads in the dust!"
Closer to the boonies, or more removed from the built up areas, depending on your point of reference, military style discipline was slack..because there was too much to do. If no ops, then there was always the civ sick call. Never ending.
The procedures, and the supplies baffled most command types. We were left alone. Even the Inspector General's office took our word on TO&E forceps and sutures. IG left with his head shaking when I told him our staff comprised of two Army MD's, one Navy (FMF) doc, two VN's, one Australian, and one veterinarian. No dentist, I told him. We all took turns at that.
..best of times, worst of times.
I was in a ward laid out much like barracks with thicker mattresses and only one bunk to a tier. We didn't have orderlies because the patients did all the work. We kept the place pretty clean. We had a ward inspection every day and personnel inspection once a week.
There was no smoking between taps (10:00 PM) and reveille (6:00 AM), and you had to go to the TV room at the end of the ward to smoke during the day.
It wasn't easy to get liberty from the hospital. After about a month I started pinging on one of the doctors to give me a liberty card. He finally gave me an eight hour liberty with so many restrictions on it I decide it wasn't worth the trouble and didn't bring it up again.
The nurses were like most nurses. Some good, some bad and most mediocre. Their rank was on the nurse cap. Most of them were Ensigns (O-1) and Lieutenant Junior Grade (O-2) and the senior nurse was a Lieutenant Commander (O-4). They didn't clown around much when she was in the vicinity.
We had one guy in the ward who was dieing with cancer and usually couldn't get out of bed. One nurse kept trying to force him to participate in sweepers and field day. He couldn't have done it even if he wanted to, but he didn't want to and on a good day he would fight back.
I thought she must be about the meanest woman on earth and asked her one day why she didn't just leave the boy alone and let him die in peace. She had it in her mind that she was keeping him alive by keeping him angry at her. I think she was wrong, but at least she meant well.
There was a Second Class Petty Officer (E-5) in the ward who had some kind of butt operation. They told him to try to force a bowel movement as soon as possible after the surgery, and the longer he waited the more painful it would be.
He was afraid of the pain so he didn't use the head for that purpose for two weeks. Somehow he ate three meals a day during that same two weeks. By the time the doctors found out about it, it wasn't possible for him to have a bowel movement. The doctors and Corpsmen didn't show him much mercy. They strapped him face down on one of those stretchers with wheels, without anything for the pain, put on the long rubber gloves and did it for him. Most God awful screaming I've ever heard. They said you could hear him in the main lobby of the hospital.
Other than that, it was pretty much like any other hospital.
VA was another animal all together, I've got no complaints with them. They did the best they could with limited resources and often did way more than they had to. Many of the Doctors were from third world countries and took whatever job was available, often with the VA. Most of my experience was with the Orthopedics section and they were generally as good as anybody. Even if they often spoke broken English.
I don't really give a darn what they look like, act like or what accent they have, as long as they are competent.
Most of the Sikhs I've run across were lacking in a sense of humor, generally serious guys, with a large mission first attitude. Way back when, we often trained with the Brits and the Sikhs.
One thing I will say, is Dependant health care is often a whole other system or mindset (at least overseas). My youngest had some serious health issues. I have absolutely no bad things to say about his care in an overseas military Hospital. His Doctor wore civilian clothes and military uniform and was world class in his specialty. He spoke with an accent I never did really place, maybe Bulgarian.
Balboa was a good place, other than the crazies (that place could be a real circus). They did a lot of stuff off the books and generally took good care of Veterans. They had a whole wing of really damaged people, they cared for well.
The company comander was a Captain. The medical platoons had full bird Colonels, Lt. Col., Majors, and other officers (all Doctors) in their squads.
Majority of those upper ranking Doctors had messy uniforms and had forgoten all their military bearing.
I imagine they were great Doctors, and believe I had heard that some of them were heads of the local hospitals.
Regarding the Sikh, I got a laugh that the Army had to inadvertantly admit, that the whole clean shaven uniform requirement, was pure BS. This fellow was able to seal and clear his gas mask with full beard.
quote:Closer to the boonies, or more removed from the built up areas, depending on your point of reference, military style discipline was slack..because there was too much to do. If no ops, then there was always the civ sick call. Never ending.
I'm currently stationed at a FOB (Forward Operating Base) in Afghanistan a few klicks from the Pakistani border. We run combat missions almost every day, and we receive MEDEVACs at the FOB almost every day too. Our last IDF (Indirect Fire) attack was a couple of hours ago. The one before that was yesterday...you get the picture.
The hospital here has little in the way of traditional military discipline or decorum. Almost everyone wears scrubs. Wearing of rank is hit or miss. The docs and medics look like they slept in their uniforms half the time...because they have. And no one cares.
I wouldn't care if the doc wore khaki shorts and a flowered shirt - as long as he knows how to do his job and save a life. We have 5 medics in our company (not that many usually, but we are overstrength in certain MOSs due to the high optempo and casualty rate). Two off our medics are fat, one is old and goofy and looks nothing like a soldier, one is tall and skinny and forgets to shave all the time, and one is young and eccentric and never wears his uniform correctly. And I wouldn't trade any of them. ALL of them have proven themselves to be competent field medics, and ALL of them have treated my buddies and me under fire. I've truly lost count of how many MEDEVACs my company has had. Bottom line, I don't care what they look like - what matters to me is that I can trust them.
The old goofy medic is really good at scraping brain matter off of where it doesn't belong and has been blown up at least five times that I know of - one of those blasts completely destroyed a Buffalo.
One of the fat medics regularly dismounts and walks through uncleared areas right after IED strikes so he can render care to his soldiers.
Two months ago, the other fat medic treated three of his injured buddies and strapped them down for MEDEVAC before his Platoon Sergeant had to force him onto a litter so he could be MEDEVACed himself after his vehicle flipped over.
The tall, skinny unshaven medic never lets his guys dismount without him, and is one of the best we have at spotting command wires. Just yesterday, after we received the first round of IDF, he took of running for the tent that got hit, even knowing that most follow on rounds impact in the same area (thankfully, yesterday they didn't).
The young medic with the crappy uniform can't sleep much anymore at night, and when he does he yells in his sleep, and will probably be a PTSD basket case when we return home, but he shows up every morning of mission checking on his guys and geared up to go out and get blown up again.
Out here, for this ragged little Route Clearance company anyway, appearance doesn't matter much. That crap used to matter to me. I have no idea why it did. The only thing I care about now is whether I can trust the soldier next to me to have my back.