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Dumb question-

FrancFFrancF Member Posts: 35,278 ✭✭✭
edited November 2003 in General Discussion
Or an analytical one, and I am not trying to stir the pot here, Think about the question before you post.

"Is there a human instinct for peace?" [:)]


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    woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Member Posts: 5,378 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think it's a natural instinct for the majority to want a life with no hassles. That would include wanting peace or striving to avoid conflict. Unfortunatly there will always be a small minority among us who are greedy for money or power and will pursue such at any cost.

    Woods

    It's better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees.
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    Rafter-SRafter-S Member Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you think of the human needs ladder, the bottom rung is food. Once food is satisfied, then shelter. Then once full and out of the weather, then sex. After those are filled, then man will look around to see what his neighbor has so he can go take it. So weapon will likely be the next rung. And so on and so on. The last rung will be self fulfillment, like making contributions to noble causes and being publically recognized for it.

    I think humans "desire" peace, but their nature won't allow it.

    That is my honest opinion,
    Rafter-S
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    FrancFFrancF Member Posts: 35,278 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    BTW- This is an old Poly-Sci. Question I had 25+ years ago in HS

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    jwhardingjwharding Member Posts: 2,897 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    wHaT A dUmB qUeStiOn.[:D]

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    bambihunterbambihunter Member Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I liked Rafters answer...
    Fanatic collector of the 10mm auto.
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    ruger270manruger270man Member Posts: 9,361 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    No.. because every now and then i get in a pi$$ed off mood and just want to beat somebody's *, because people make me mad, especially stupid people.

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    Gibbs505Gibbs505 Member Posts: 3,175
    edited November -1
    There is a list of needs that have been put out by severial head doc's. The lists differ from the point of view of each one.

    I don't think peace, as we understand it, is on any of these lists, so the answer to your question, which is not dumb, would have to be no.[:(]
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    Colt SuperColt Super Member Posts: 31,007
    edited November -1
    I think mankind has an instinct and an inborn desire for peace.

    I think that our requirement to protect and defend our loved ones supercedes this.

    I would kill for some peace in my life.

    God Bless America and...
    NEVER Forget WACO
    NEVER, EVER Forget 911
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    WarbirdsWarbirds Member Posts: 16,839 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would have to say there is a human instinct for defense, but not peace. Greed is too powerful in man for peace to be an instinct.
    You can look at any civilization on earth from any time period. No civilization thrived on peace, peace translates into weakness, which translates down to extinct civilizations.


    R/

    Dave


    How different the world would be if we could consult the veteran instead of the politician. - Henry Miller
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    pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I like Rafter-S answer also. But to put sex 3rd? I have been cold, wet, and hungry, and still wanted to.....well never mind. LOL

    As to an answer to the question. In my opinion the short answer is, no. After the quest for survival has been dealt with, mankind always "wants" more, bigger, better. If taking it from someone else, is the means to that end, history has proven that this is the path that has (when necessary, or by choice) been chosen. I do believe that age plays a part in this also. As we mature (and maybe grow a little lazier?) we can be "satisfied" with a certain comfort level.


    The gene pool needs chlorine.
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    jsergovicjsergovic Member Posts: 5,526
    edited November -1
    Order creates confidence and security, a sense of well-being.

    Order CAN = peace.

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    landjetlandjet Member Posts: 84 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    As an instinct, I would have to say no.

    I think we are social creatures; that is, highly evolved pack animals, if you will. I think our only enduring instinct is that of survival for ourselves and or our "pack". Like the calm lady who suddenly goes "psyco" to protect her children, or a wilderness accident where the city-slicker survives in extreme conditions, or a soldier in the heat of battle - I know for me, I really didn't care about politics in the moments of direct enemy fire. The only concern was for the survival of myself and my pack. Only as we survived, did our politics and cause follow.

    I think peace is desired and longed for, especially by those who have lived the absence of it, but it is not an instinct; maybe rather an outcome or goal. Without the conflict, would we... could we, REALLY understand and appreciate what peace is? I would apply that to both peace in the world as a whole, but maybe more interesting... to peace with ones self. If we all had that, maybe the world could follow.

    But for now, my instinct tells me to keep reloading... [8D]
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    bartobarto Member Posts: 4,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    My personal take is that we have an instinct to FIGHT for peace, shelter, mates etc.
    Peace, not being a real emotion, could hardly be an instinct,imho.

    Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names.-JFK
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    Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 39,380 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    What woodsrunner said.

    81st FA BN WWII...Thanks Dad
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    Chaser11Chaser11 Member Posts: 251 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rafter-S
    If you think of the human needs ladder, the bottom rung is food. Once food is satisfied, then shelter. Then once full and out of the weather, then sex. After those are filled, then man will look around to see what his neighbor has so he can go take it. So weapon will likely be the next rung. And so on and so on. The last rung will be self fulfillment, like making contributions to noble causes and being publically recognized for it.

    I think humans "desire" peace, but their nature won't allow it.

    That is my honest opinion,
    Rafter-S
    I think whats he is saying is the instinct is Basically "SURVIVAL" peaceful or otherwise[V]

    American used to Roar like Lions for Liberty- Now they Bleat like Sheep for Security.
    Always Remember Security without Liberty is called PRISON! -
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    Chaser11Chaser11 Member Posts: 251 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by pickenup
    I like Rafter-S answer also. But to put sex 3rd? I have been cold, wet, and hungry, and still wanted to.....well never mind. LOL

    As to an answer to the question. In my opinion the short answer is, no. After the quest for survival has been dealt with, mankind always "wants" more, bigger, better. If taking it from someone else, is the means to that end, history has proven that this is the path that has (when necessary, or by choice) been chosen. I do believe that age plays a part in this also. As we mature (and maybe grow a little lazier?) we can be "satisfied" with a certain comfort level.


    The gene pool needs chlorine.
    I don't thinkk he has been cold enough , wet enough or hungery enough to fully understand the answer...If i'm wet, frezzing,and starved, i do beleive the last thing on my mind is gonna be sex...SURVIVAL FIRST...take care of those needs later,with a steak dinner and a fireplace and bottle of your choice...[:D]

    American used to Roar like Lions for Liberty- Now they Bleat like Sheep for Security.
    Always Remember Security without Liberty is called PRISON! -
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    n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    No, there is no human instinct for peace.
    Greed and dominance ...

    There is an old saying that rings so true...."As long as there are two men alive on earth, there will be war".....reasons? Greed and Dominance..

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    Lil' Stinker's Opinion
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    n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    OK! We are gonna have peace, even if it means I gotta kick your * to get it.


    "I dont care how thin you make a pancake, it still has two sides"

    "A wise man is a man that realizes just how little he knows"
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    wundudneewundudnee Member Posts: 6,101 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Heck yes! Oh, you said p-e-a-c-e peace. Sorry. [:I][:I]

    ....................
    Old? First you forget names; then you forget faces; then you forget to pull your zipper up; then you forget to pull your zipper down.
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    nordnord Member Posts: 6,106
    edited November -1
    Depends on personality and social position...

    Peace at any price... A few.
    Peace because my hammer is bigger than your's... A few more.
    Peace because there isn't anyone left to disagree... Lot's of them.
    Pease because it's humane and correct... Don't hold your breath.


    Nord
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    jjmitchell60jjmitchell60 Member Posts: 3,887
    edited November -1
    We are born from a society of hunter-gathers and with that the instinct for peace was not in our souls. Had we been a society of no wants or worries from the beginning of mankind then we would have the instinct for peace. Peace is a learned idea that can only be satisified with more learning. We must learn to share, be indifferent, and to learn to not be so vain. Can you name one species that does have an instinct for peace. All species will either fight for food, shelter, or self preservation. Peace is an idea and an idea cannot be an instinct. Just my 2 cents worth. As to sex being number 3, is sex not a form of self fulfillment?

    God protect me from my friends, I can take care of my enemies...
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    pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Chaser11;
    It was a joke, understand the concept of "LOL"?

    The gene pool needs chlorine.
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    whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    rafter:

    Not exactly Maslow's triangle but the gist is there. Acceptance by a group is how he termed it and it fits in the love/esteem section. Definately a factor.

    Clouder..
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    Rafter-SRafter-S Member Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Quote: Not exactly Maslow's triangle but the gist is there.

    It's been over 30 years since I studied Maslow's Pyramid--it seems he was doing his research back in the late 60's or so. There was also studies about long-term and short-term motivators, but I can't for the life of me recall who it was that was doing it. Oh, well. Something has to go with age.

    The weapons part and taking what belongs to one's neighbor is my addition to the pyramid. But Maslow wouldn't listen to me.

    Rafter-S

    P.S Congratulations on your astute observation.
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    bigdaddyjuniorbigdaddyjunior Member Posts: 11,233
    edited November -1
    I think the desire for peace comes with age and experience. As young men we are driven to establish ourselves at the cost of many things that only later we realize were things better not lost.

    Big Daddy my heros have always been cowboys,they still are it seems
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    Rafter-SRafter-S Member Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    BDJ-- Men will always "desire" peace, but unfortunately, selfishness is a trait that overrides that desire.

    Rafter-S
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    bigdaddyjuniorbigdaddyjunior Member Posts: 11,233
    edited November -1
    I gave up selfishness in exchange for children. Pretty good deal I think.[:)]

    Big Daddy my heros have always been cowboys,they still are it seems
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    FrancFFrancF Member Posts: 35,278 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    whiteclouder & Rafter-S so ya know and I will be honest. I only know
    very little about Maslow's triangle and the hierarchy triangle stuff.
    my question, I was hoping to be more of a netural nature.

    But you guys did hit on something that some large corporations that I have worked for base employee training programs on. [:)]

    Thanks for bringing that up, how soon I forget the little stuff [:)]


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    Rafter-SRafter-S Member Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The next source for study of man's nature begins in the book of Genesis.

    Rafter-S
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    FrancFFrancF Member Posts: 35,278 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote: The next source for study of man's nature begins in the book of Genesis.

    Noted: [:)]

    and the ones without or Religious study?

    (not trying to start anything! honest) I feel that people are born with an idea of good and bad, make it or not make it.

    "Is there a human instinct for peace?"

    my only solution is "If the price is right" [?]

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    rdcinmnrdcinmn Member Posts: 655 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think humans "desire" peace, but their nature won't allow it.

    I think that pretty much covers it under the K.I.S.S. rule![:D]
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    Rafter-SRafter-S Member Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    FrankF-- I'm checking out of this thread here. I think the intellectual aspects of it are nearing exhaustion. Your questions seem to be agging on an endless exchange that will eventually end in a mess. I will be no part of it.

    Thank you and good night,
    Rafter,S
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    FrancFFrancF Member Posts: 35,278 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Agreed [:D]

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    SkyWatcherSkyWatcher Member Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here's my take: Peace = Order

    The natural tendancy of the universe is from order to disorder (2nd Law of Thermodynamics).

    As far as the genesis account, I guess I would say that a "fallen creation" could account for this tendancy. My position is that all mean are basically evil, that is - born into sin, and must be redeemed from their sin nature. The sinfulness/evil/depravity in us all makes us the natural enemies of peace. Only something foreign (I believe that is God) working in us will allow us to desire peace.

    So is there an instict for peace? I would say not now, no. Maybe originally, before the fall of man into sin, but even if so, does not exist now and man must be redeemed before truly desiring it.

    That's my take...and my head hurts now from thinking too much.

    To whom much is given, much is expected.
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    He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 50,953 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Technically, the definition of Instinct requires that a behavior be species specific. For example, a robin builds a nest like other robins, and not like a crow. The behavior is hard wired and specific to a species. Thus nursing is not a human instinct, because all mammals have the urge and ability to nurse as neonates.

    I conclude there is no human instinct for peace, though it is certainly a good idea.

    Equally, there is no instinct for war or conflict.

    There is a drive for survival.

    My heros have always killed cowboys.
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    Night StalkerNight Stalker Member Posts: 11,967
    edited November -1
    Humans have no instincts.

    NSDQ!

    RISK: A ship in the harbor is safe.... but that's not what ships are made for.
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