In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Kansas No Guns Allowed Signs
Bubba Joel
Member Posts: 5,161
Last year I moved from Texas to Kansas and was very surprised at all the no firearms allowed signs on the doors at businesses here. I sent this e-mail to the local mall here.. Do you think it will help?
First of all let me compliment you on your mall. Its very clean & neat establishment. I moved up here last year from Texas and was looking forward to patronizing your stores (mall). I was shocked at the NO FIREARMS signs on the doors. I would respectfully ask that you consider removing those so I could shop at your stores there. I do have a permit to carry in Texas as well as one here in Kansas. This day in time it truely bothers me that fireams are not allowed in the mall due to no one allowed to protect themselves.. The signs are only gonna be honored by honest citizens, the criminal element does not pay attention to signs as posted.
Again please allow me to protect myself and also shop your stores.. As of now I shop other places that has no such signs..
Thank you for your consideration.
**** ******
First of all let me compliment you on your mall. Its very clean & neat establishment. I moved up here last year from Texas and was looking forward to patronizing your stores (mall). I was shocked at the NO FIREARMS signs on the doors. I would respectfully ask that you consider removing those so I could shop at your stores there. I do have a permit to carry in Texas as well as one here in Kansas. This day in time it truely bothers me that fireams are not allowed in the mall due to no one allowed to protect themselves.. The signs are only gonna be honored by honest citizens, the criminal element does not pay attention to signs as posted.
Again please allow me to protect myself and also shop your stores.. As of now I shop other places that has no such signs..
Thank you for your consideration.
**** ******
Comments
Please tell me that you did not actually use the "word" gonna in the letter!
first, how would anyone know youre carrying??
second , what can they do if they found out you were carrying? ask you to leave?[:0]
just thought of a third;
do they think the guy that robs them is gonna pay attention to the sign?
I mean, that's the whole point of a concealed licence, right?
Same with gunshows. I usually have a bunch of money and unloaded guns when I go. Learn to keep your mouth shut and you can pretty much do as you please in the world.
Gotcha.
Because... I don't hurt you and you can live with yourself because of the sign at the door.
Yeah right.
Again please allow me to protect myself and also shop your stores.. As of now I shop other places that has no such signs..
Thank you for your consideration.
**** ******
I run into this all the time. People have their agendas and I have mine. Mine takes precedence over theirs. If there is a sign, I ignore it and carry out my business without fanfare.
I mean, that's the whole point of a concealed licence, right?
Same with gunshows. I usually have a bunch of money and unloaded guns when I go. Learn to keep your mouth shut and you can pretty much do as you please in the world.
Sage advice.
Money talks, bovine deposits walk.
It's what the mall ninjas LIVE for!
remember "Gecko" ?
Two of the reasons to take the second way is one if the business is not honest and second is politics I do not agree with.
I carry just about everywhere except when I go in the federal building or in airports. I have carried in bars,resaurants, churches, schools, hospitals, police station, counsel meeting, dog show, strip bar, casinos, sams, parents house etc. ......and I am the only one that has to know I am packing.
In Indiana, we can carry in airports, just not past the metal detectors. I did, three times this week.
Nanoq-
As to carrying on posted commercially zoned property, it's not quite the same as dealing illegal drugs in someone's house against their wishes. Good try, though.
Kansas----Thats where b"O"zo's mama came from[:0]
True ... but O didn't carry Kansas in the election.
? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
Offcourse it's not the same... duuuuuhhhhhhh !!
Drugs are federally outlawed - but it's still the principle of it.
If there's something you don't want going on in your house, you can't do anything about it.... and your guests can disregard whatever you say, if it's not state/federally outlawed.
How does that make you feel?
It's the same with a big buisness - they might not want civilians to bear arms in their store, that's THEIR choice of house rules.
And they can litterally refuse to do buisness with you, if you carry.
Just as you can refuse anyone from entering YOUR property or YOUR house - if they do or have something that YOU don't like.
How would you feel if one of your guests came to visit, and was carrying a Kohran (muslim bible) - if you're christian... you might tell that person to leave it in his car, because you don't want it in your house.
But as you lay it out - then offcourse you can't do anything, because it's not state/federally outlawed.
At whatever buisness you choose to enter - you would be wrong and at risk from being "thrown" out, if you didn't obey house rules.
If house rules says... "No arms" - then that's just what it is.
Eventhough state or federal law protects your right to be armed.
It's something called "respect" - to respect other peoples choice and house rules.
CCE1302...
Offcourse it's not the same... duuuuuhhhhhhh !!
Drugs are federally outlawed - but it's still the principle of it.
If there's something you don't want going on in your house, you can't do anything about it.... and your guests can disregard whatever you say, if it's not state/federally outlawed.
How does that make you feel?
It's the same with a big buisness - they might not want civilians to bear arms in their store, that's THEIR choice of house rules.
And they can litterally refuse to do buisness with you, if you carry.
Just as you can refuse anyone from entering YOUR property or YOUR house - if they do or have something that YOU don't like.
How would you feel if one of your guests came to visit, and was carrying a Kohran (muslim bible) - if you're christian... you might tell that person to leave it in his car, because you don't want it in your house.
But as you lay it out - then offcourse you can't do anything, because it's not state/federally outlawed.
At whatever buisness you choose to enter - you would be wrong and at risk from being "thrown" out, if you didn't obey house rules.
If house rules says... "No arms" - then that's just what it is.
Eventhough state or federal law protects your right to be armed.
It's something called "respect" - to respect other peoples choice and house rules.
Why should I respect someone who doesn't respect my basic human right to defend myself?
It is a most serious offense to refuse to deal with me until I have rendered myself defenseless.
Why should I respect someone who doesn't respect my basic human right to defend myself?
It is a most serious offense to refuse to deal with me until I have rendered myself defenseless.
Because it's private property - and noone FORCES you to shop there.
As I see it - there is :
1: Federal law that outlines the big picture of what to do and what not to do.
2: State law, that can further restrict what to do/not to do - but it can never open up for the federal law.
3: Then you have whatever local law or restrictions to obey also - but those can't open up on state or federal law.
It's really just a matter of what level you're prepared to obey - and respect. And remember - the door swings both ways - YOU can offcourse set local law/restrictions on your property also. That's a given.
But with your take on things - why would anyone even take notice of them, because state and federal law says otherwise.!
Some people see it - some don't.
quote:Originally posted by HeavyBarrel
I simply do not understand how someone's brain can be wired to the point that they believe that someone crazy enough to go into a mall and shoot random, innocent people at no discretion is somehow sane enough to not start shooting because the mall asked them not to bring thier gun inside.....
Simple, it stacks the deck when charging a defendant. Most CCW laws do not permit the carrying, concealed or otherwise, of a firearm in an establishment that has been posted.
The whack job bent on killing innocent/defenseless people will never read the sign. They know that (I would hope they do). It's just one more charge they will add to the list...if he lives.
That's if the signs n Kansas even bears the weight of law. In many states (Michigan and Indiana certainly) signs on private property carry no weight. Even if a manager or owner asks you to leave because you are carrying, you cannot be charged with a weapons crime unless you refuse to leave and are charged with trespassing plus carrying a weapon while committing a crime.
Please tell me that you did not actually use the "word" gonna in the letter!
With a handle like "Bubba", you take a guess Mark![:D]
if something goes wrong and a phsyco threatens me or my family it will be him/her 6 foot under the ground...not the people i love...and to hell with the law! it can rot alongside the phsyco[}:)][:(!]
I carried in that mall the first couple times and didn't even notice the signs.. Now that I have seen them, I try to stay in compliance with the law..
Stop by the office supply store, and get some laser cut business card stock. These print on one side, turn over, print the other. Let ink dry good, pop them apart, and give one to the store MANAGER.
As to carrying on posted commercially zoned property, it's not quite the same as dealing illegal drugs in someone's house against their wishes. Good try, though.
So private property rights should only apply to residential properties then?
Your rights end where mine begin. NO ONE has the right to infringe on anyone else's rights. That means you do not have the "right" to do anything on MY property if I say no. You do NOT have the right to carry a gun onto my private property if I say you are not to. End of story.
If you see a sign that says "no guns allowed" and you bring a gun in, guess what? You are an armed trespasser. And you know what property owners are legally allowed to do to armed trespassers, right?
The right to carry a firearm shall not infringe on someone's private property rights. Carry a firearm on public property, your own property, or any private property that allows it. If you don't like the "no guns" rule, don't step foot on the property. Seems simple enough to me.
quote:Originally posted by tplumeri
second , what can they do if they found out you were carrying? ask you to leave?[:0]
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
That's if the signs n Kansas even bears the weight of law. In many states (Michigan and Indiana certainly) signs on private property carry no weight. Even if a manager or owner asks you to leave because you are carrying, you cannot be charged with a weapons crime unless you refuse to leave and are charged with trespassing plus carrying a weapon while committing a crime.
I believe you may be mistaken. It has always been my understanding that in Indiana if there are clearly posted signs on private property, a person can be charged with a misdemeanor if caught carrying there anyway.
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
As to carrying on posted commercially zoned property, it's not quite the same as dealing illegal drugs in someone's house against their wishes. Good try, though.
So private property rights should only apply to residential properties then?
Your rights end where mine begin. NO ONE has the right to infringe on anyone else's rights. That means you do not have the "right" to do anything on MY property if I say no. You do NOT have the right to carry a gun onto my private property if I say you are not to. End of story.
If you see a sign that says "no guns allowed" and you bring a gun in, guess what? You are an armed trespasser. And you know what property owners are legally allowed to do to armed trespassers, right?
The right to carry a firearm shall not infringe on someone's private property rights. Carry a firearm on public property, your own property, or any private property that allows it. If you don't like the "no guns" rule, don't step foot on the property. Seems simple enough to me.
I have three disagreements with your post. the first is that "no guns" signs don't have any law attached to them, and that it is not trespassing until one is asked to leave and refuses. That's how it is in Indiana, anyway. Your state may be different.
Second, these "no guns" signs are never enforced unless they bear the weight of law, and sometimes not even then. For instance, I don't consider it enforced unless there is something in place to prevent anybody from carrying any gun on the premises, like a metal detector at an airport. (they may be occasionally enforced on private/commercial property, but I've never seen it.)
Finally, you're as bad as the anti-second amendment gun-grabbing liberals when you equate mere possession of an inanimate object with actually "doing" something. I don't let anybody smoke in my house, but if they want to have a pack of cigarettes and a lighter in their pocket, I don't care.
I believe you may be mistaken. It has always been my understanding that in Indiana if there are clearly posted signs on private property, a person can be charged with a misdemeanor if caught carrying there anyway.
If you can find that in the Indiana Code, then I'll recant my position, but I've never been able to find it.
We've researched and discussed this topic endlessly @ INGO and have come to the conclusion that since the law is silent on it, we carry. Nobody's been charged with anything yet (that we know of).
"Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. "
If we ever get a Supreme Court majority that enforces a strict interpretation of the Constitution, I believe that ALL state laws will be declared invalid. But, I am not likely to live to see that.
Second, places of business open to the public have the obligation to admit, but are free to impose certain restrictions other than race, sex, etc. Yes, they can exclude those who carry firearms, but, in most places, can only ask violators to leave. My choice is not to shop there, & spread the word among everyone I know.
Neal
Many malls and stripmalls had the signs at the entrances to thier parking lots! The KS legislature put an end to that last year.
It is a class B misd to carry concealed in a business that has the "gun buster sign". The law reads that the sign must be the attorney general approved version. Many signs are non-compliant. I will not honor a non-compliant sign but I carried in Kansas before they ever had CCW.
Kansas Concelaed Carry Forum: http://www.ksccw.com/site/
Ours is a bit different than e8gm's card.
Much better pickenup! I wouldn't wipe my hiney with that other one.