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new Alabama law on gun buys

Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
edited June 2004 in General Discussion
Officer deaths bring new Alabama law on gun buys

The Associated Press


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The shooting deaths of two Athens police officers led to a new Alabama law that requires reporting involuntary commitments of the mentally ill to a national database that screens gun buyers.

State Sen. Tom Butler, D-Madison, said Gov. Bob Riley signed the Mims-Russell Law Enforcement Protection Act, which becomes effective immediately.

"I'm saddened that we needed it, but hopefully it will save lives in the future," Butler told The Decatur Daily last week.

The law requires the reporting to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System.

Farron Barksdale, who had a history of mental commitments, is accused of killing Athens police Sgt. Larry Russell and officer Tony Mims on Jan. 2 with a rifle he purchased Dec. 24 at a Huntsville gun shop.

Barksdale had called Athens police, asking for the FBI or an officer.

When Russell and Mims arrived, he shot them to death, authorities said.

Russell's widow, Michele Russell, said the new law is "awesome."

"I can't say it would have saved Larry or Tony, but maybe he (Barksdale) would not have had a gun that day," she said.

Barksdale's attorney, John Mays, has never denied Barksdale shot the officers, but said Barksdale is innocent by reason of mental disease or defect. He describes Barksdale as a paranoid schizophrenic who did not understand what he was doing.

The Huntsville gun dealer ran a mandatory background check on Barksdale using the federal database, but Barksdale passed because Alabama had not reported any of his mental commitments.

Under federal gun laws, involuntary commitments are a reason for rejecting gun purchases, but the laws don't mandate that states report the information to the database. Alabama was one of 46 states that had not reported commitments.

Butler said the new law changing that does not infringe on a gun buyer's constitutional rights.

"It's pure common sense," he said. "I don't think anyone wants someone with a mental illness being able to buy a gun."

Gun Owners of America, a gun rights group based in Springfield, Va., opposed Alabama's legislation because, the group claimed, it wouldn't effectively keep guns from criminals.

The new law requires a probate judge who orders a person involuntarily committed to a mental hospital to report the case to Alabama's Criminal Justice Information Center in Montgomery if law enforcement personnel provide evidence the person had a history of inappropriate use of firearms or poses a threat to misuse them.

The center forwards the commitment information to the national gun purchasing database in West Virginia, which the FBI oversees.

"The (Alabama) center is working out the process to be able to send this information to the FBI," Butler said. "Since there is federal legislation pending, we're one step ahead."

Proposed changes to a federal law, if passed, would require states like Alabama to provide information on mental commitments.

Information from: The Decatur Daily
http://www.timesdaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040530/APN/405300615

"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878<P>

Comments

  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    I believe this to be a reasonable bill.

    Boomer

    "Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed"

    . and the antithesis to this philosophy was uttered by Bill Clinton "I smoked it, but I didn't inhale."[V]

    NRA Life Member
  • Rebel_JamesRebel_James Member Posts: 4,746
    edited November -1
    I think this bill is reasonable also. It should have been a law a long time ago.


    MVC-031S.jpg

    "The Greatest Battle Implement Ever Devised!"
    -- Gen. George S. Patton
    referring to the M1 Garand
  • BlueTicBlueTic Member Posts: 4,072
    edited November -1
    I can agree on this one also.

    IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY RIGHTS - GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY (this includes politicians)
  • rediceredice Member Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just so that people who have gotten better have a way of getting back off the list after a few years possibly.
  • PearywPearyw Member Posts: 3,699
    edited November -1
    As a resident of Alabama, I am happy to see this happen.
  • MercuryMercury Member Posts: 7,806 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've read it and read it, but I just can't seem to find this "law" anywhere in the Constitution........


    Merc



    Insignia?

    Nos nullus habitum rancidum insignia!



    "Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
  • timbromantimbroman Member Posts: 1,164
    edited November -1
    BS "feel good" law. Who's next? AIDs patients who may become homicidal because they have nothing to lose? Or anyone else for that matter who has been diagnosed with a terminal condition. Or the spouse of the terminally ill. Or parent. Or child. Senior citizens - hey, if you can't get a driver's license you can't have a gun. Wear diapers, no guns. The homeless. The vet who's in post-traumatic stress therapy at the VA clinic. Alcoholics because they may hallucinate and shoot someone? People who have been ticketed for speeding, DWI or failure to wear seatbelts because they have been shown to be of unsound judgement and reckless behavior. The obese, cigarette smokers, people who wear glasses, people who shave their heads, people who wear black trenchcoats, people who are against abortion and have demonstrated at Planned Parenthood clinics or maybe just said they might.

    Maybe we really ought to outlaw pool-shooting where alcohol is sold as the last leo (that I know of) in our community to be injured in the line of duty was smacked across the throat with a cue stick in a saloon here. He survived but was in the hospital for a day or two.

    Lots of the sheep who believe this Alabama legislation is a sound and constitutional law also endorse the seat-belt law. See how well this circumvents probable cause. And if you think its okay to make the nervous disorder an issue to prevent the purchase of a gun, how small is the step to search and seize guns owned prior to the institutionalization of the citizen.

    Unbelievable. Another vast legal measure with half-vast intellectual investment.

    "If the zoo is closed, drop by the Senate. You'll get the
    same feeling and you won't have to pay." Bob Dole
  • oldemagicsoldemagics Member Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    also how bout people like the gent in a previous post who had his guns confiscated and ordered to "psychiatric evaluation"?
    that is technically an involentary committment?!
    so the shrinks say he is fine and release him, does his name get pulled from the list and his weapons returned or does he just get scre*ed?
    think about those circumstances, cause it can happen quicker than most realize
    o m
  • timbromantimbroman Member Posts: 1,164
    edited November -1
    Yes Magics, that is the difference between "feel good" law and sensible intelligent law.

    Sadly two leos shot and killed by a deranged individual - he was in the "system" before the murders and if he were deemed a homicide risk steps could and perhaps should have been taken to restrict his possession of a lethal weapon. There is a legal and constitutional framework to safegaurd society from an potentially imminent threat but this takes a commitment to liberty and the republic - hard for sheep.

    On the other hand this "feel good" blanket ban requires no thought - good for sheep. Good photo op for the politicians, sheriffs and police chiefs. At the end of the day Alabama leos are no less likely to be shot by a deranged individual because of this law, but we as a society have a little less liberty and a little more gun control.


    "If the zoo is closed, drop by the Senate. You'll get the
    same feeling and you won't have to pay." Bob Dole
  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    quote:The shooting deaths of two Athens police officers led to a new Alabama law that requires reporting involuntary commitments of the mentally ill to a national database that screens gun buyers.
    timbroman, oldemagics - Try reading and uderstanding the post before you make commentary that is not applicable.

    Boomer

    "Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed"

    . and the antithesis to this philosophy was uttered by Bill Clinton "I smoked it, but I didn't inhale."[V]

    NRA Life Member
  • timbromantimbroman Member Posts: 1,164
    edited November -1
    Boomer - I read it just fine. My position is still the same. I see no connection. Should this person who was involuntarily committed then released also be prohibited from having a driver's license? A pilot's license? A weedeater? A clawhammer? A boxcutter?

    Boomer, I would urge you to think about the ramifications of the law before embracing it. Otherwise, why don't you join with like minds and ban guns altogether? That would solve it all, wouldn't it?


    "If the zoo is closed, drop by the Senate. You'll get the
    same feeling and you won't have to pay." Bob Dole
  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    To me this is a question of common sense. Do we allow known (legally pronounced) unstable individuals to own guns? The answer is simple, NO! I agree if the law is expanded to voluntary committals then I would be against it. It is a question of balance also. Do we blind ourselves to believe that the gun rights we revere come with no responsibilities? I hope we are far from that point. If we are unable to distinguish between good laws and bad laws we are in big trouble, and the anti 2A crowd will be even more emboldened.

    Boomer

    "Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed"

    . and the antithesis to this philosophy was uttered by Bill Clinton "I smoked it, but I didn't inhale."[V]

    NRA Life Member
  • 2gun2gun Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    this is a tough call. i dont want wackos having guns but then whos gets to define wacko? some would say anyone wanting to own a gun is crazy.

    also these laws tend to start from a perfectly reasonable perspective and then get added on to by people who have a less than stellar intent. i'll withold judgement and see where this goes

    happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
  • ZERODINZERODIN Member Posts: 6,338
    edited November -1
    Can someone show me which part of the second amendment mentions common sense or makes any exceptions for any reason?

    The solution is not to make it harder to get a gun. The solution is to be stricter about releasing mental patients and criminals. If you are not rehabilitated and able to function as a citizen, what the heck are you doing out?
  • pipskickspipskicks Member Posts: 3,049
    edited November -1
    I think it is a good law, but when they do these things unopposed, it gives them the idea that they can keep pushing the envelope more and more.
    Give them a little and they will just keep going-but the law seems helpful either way.
  • sandman2234sandman2234 Member Posts: 894 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    So if I voluntarily check myself into a hospital that also treats mentally ill people, to help me get a grip on life from the loss of several family members (Just for instance) who were killed by a drunk driver, while I was driving, and they died in my arms...
    Now I can't own a gun?

    Who gets to decide? I think this ought to be a case by case check to see if someone is insane enough to buy a gun or not.
    I am not sure if this couldn't backfire on us like several well intentioned laws have already.
    David

    Have Gun, will travel
  • ZERODINZERODIN Member Posts: 6,338
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by sandman2234
    So if I voluntarily check myself into a hospital that also treats mentally ill people, to help me get a grip on life from the loss of several family members (Just for instance) who were killed by a drunk driver, while I was driving, and they died in my arms...
    Now I can't own a gun?

    Who gets to decide? I think this ought to be a case by case check to see if someone is insane enough to buy a gun or not.
    I am not sure if this couldn't backfire on us like several well intentioned laws have already.


    I still stand firm: if you are not mentally fit to safely and lawfully exercise your rights as protected by the Constitution, you should not be released from your commitment and/or incarceration. Once you are out, there should be no reason to restrict your rights. Laws like this just sweep the symptoms under the rug while neglecting to solve the actual problem. (Read my other posts on how I hate liars and lazy people, and how laws like this are a way of lying in order to get away with being lazy.)
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