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IDIOT at the range. should be dead...

mrmike08075mrmike08075 Member Posts: 10,998 ✭✭✭
edited May 2004 in General Discussion
i witnessed another total cluster f*** at the range this weekend. DARWIN was right about nature thinning out the herd and improving the species by letting the less intellagent folks accidently kill themselves off through acts of extreme stupidity...


witness the gent who purchesed a DOM 1914 COLT COMMERCIAL MODEL .45 SEMIAUTO from a competing web sight. 95% condition, in its original box, with the original magazine...

when, after firing about 60 rounds through the gun, he complained that "something did not feel right" and asked for assistance...

seems he had put about 60 rounds of 230 gr FMJ modern ammo through his gun....

seems that the gun was not headspacing correctly, and the rounds were only going about 80% into the chamber...

seems that the cases suffered massive failure... splitting down there length, expanding (blowing out) the unchambered portion, pinhole burn-through acting like a mini blowtorch inside the gun... firing without the slide completly closed / in battery...

he cracked the frame on both sides, about 75% through...below the BBL chamber junction....

he wants to go to the shop he bought the ammo at and complain, demand a refund, and recoupe repair / replacement costs...

230 gr FMJ modern ammo through a 1914 DOM COMMERCIAL COLT...

how ignorant / stupid / unconcerned / can you be???

i cringe at the thought of how much this gun was worth...
i cringe on the rarity, and collectability of this piece...
95%, in box, with accsesories...

its bad enough he shot the gun at all, but with modern hardball 230 gr FMJ ammo???

he does not understand that he should be dead, or a * with a ruined hand, or perhaps permanently blind...

WHAT DO YOU DO / SAY to folks like this...

10 minutes of research on the web, or the purchase of 1 or 2 books would have stopped this cold... 2-3 friendly questions at the range...

[B)][:(][:0][:(!][xx(]

best regards, mike.



What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.
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    woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Member Posts: 5,378 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I shoot modern 230gr hardball through my 1918 vintage comercial gun all the time. Also plenty of WWII surplus ammo. And plenty of handloads loaded to duplicate factory. Probably a couple thousand rounds over the past ten years. The sin commited wasn't the ammo which is loaded to the same levels as it was when Browning invented the round. It was the stupidity of shooting any gun for the first time without examining the casings and gun after the first couple rounds fired.

    Woods



    rockin_lg_clr.gif

    "... there is much truth in the Italian saying, 'Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you.'" -- Benjamin Franklin
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    mrmike08075mrmike08075 Member Posts: 10,998 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i thought that the pre WWI guns were of dubious quality...
    ie, should not be fired, as the slides and frames have been known to exhibit weakness, and experiance cracks...

    i though the older COLT pistols had a history of problems like this...

    i have been wrong before...
    please let us know what the real deal is.
    best regards, mike.

    What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.
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    p3skykingp3skyking Member Posts: 25,750 ✭
    edited November -1
    I shoot my 1905 and 1918 Colts with modern .45. I stick to standard loads. No problem.

    Would concur that he should have checked the weapon. You have to ALWAYS ask yourself WHY a gun lay unfired for so long. Surely it was purchased to be fired, but for some reason the owner decided not to.

    Perhaps he detected a problem with it? A number of rotten "like new" guns have come to light.

    The barrel sounds like the culprit here.

    Any man can shoot a gun, and with practice he can draw fast and shoot accurately, but that makes no difference. What counts is how you stand up when somebody is shooting back at you.
    To die for what one believes is all very well for those so inclined, but it has always seemed to me the most vain of solutions. There is no cause worth dying for that is not better served by living. L'Amour
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    MooseyardMooseyard Member Posts: 2,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a 1918 Colt in 90%, and I have fired hundreds of rounds of modern ammo through it. I have had people tell me that I'm stupid for shooting such a fine old piece. My reply is that this pistol survived WWI and WWII, I'm not going to hurt it just by doing some plinking.
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    Ronald J. SnowRonald J. Snow Member Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I may be missing something here but this pistol should not have fired while out of battery (rounds were only going about 80% into the chamber). I agree that it sounds like a firearm/shooter problem rather than an ammo problem.
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    jsergovicjsergovic Member Posts: 5,526
    edited November -1
    I couldn't imagine firing out of battery even once.
    Think about doing it several dozen times.[:D][xx(][xx(]

    I LOVE MY COLT!

    ____________________________________________________________colt.gif
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    v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey, wait a second. The disconnector's function is to prevent the 1911 from firing out of battery. If it did actually fire out of battery, the disconnector spring needs to be rebent or replaced with a new modern spring. GI combo trigger/disconnector/grip safety springs are soft and require occasional rebending.
    All 1911s should be periodically checked for disconnector function by pushing the muzzle & barrel together to the rear 1/4" and with the hammer at full cock, pull the trigger. The hammer should not fall. THE PISTOL MUST BE UNLOADED for this test.
    In good condition, all 1911 & 1911A1s are safe with standard military ball ammunition.
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    jsergovicjsergovic Member Posts: 5,526
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by v35
    Hey, wait a second. The disconnector's function is to prevent the 1911 from firing out of battery. If it did actually fire out of battery, the disconnector spring needs to be rebent or replaced little late for that, but I wish I understood exactly how all the parts interacted with a new modern spring. GI combo trigger/disconnector/grip safety springs are soft and require occasional rebending.
    All 1911s should be periodically checked for disconnector function by pushing the muzzle & barrel together to the rear 1/4" and with the hammer at full cock, pull the trigger. The hammer should not fall. THE PISTOL MUST BE UNLOADED for this test. My favorite line. If the guy mentioned above got this "test" advice, imagine him shooting himself through the palm, grazing his cheek or chest. OUCH! 230 GR. HURTS!
    In good condition, all 1911 & 1911A1s are safe with standard military ball ammunition.
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    Rafter-SRafter-S Member Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a US military 1911 manufactured in 1915. Had it for over 40 years and shot thousands of rounds through it, factory and handloads, in all bullet weights. It was THE PROTECTOR of my young family in the 60's--carried it many miles. I semi-retired the old guy a few years ago, but still carry it on special occasions...just for old times sake. It still makes a darn good PROTECTOR.

    Rafter-S
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    madmarc0madmarc0 Member Posts: 862 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have many 1911's from 1912 to present and NEVER had a problem with 230gr. FMJ ammo and I even shoot it in my Colt 1905 .45!

    Sounds like something was wrong with the gun or chamber maybe before he started using it?

    I measured it and cut it twice, and it's still too short!
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    ZERODINZERODIN Member Posts: 6,338
    edited November -1
    I see a lot of responses about people using modern ammo in their vintage guns just fine. I second those responses of the form "It works fine for me, but you'd have to be an idiot to fire out of battery." If the gun is not in its firing position, you do not fire the gun. Imagine a bolt gun whose sear can release by pulling the trigger with the bolt unlocked. You try to chamber a round but the bolt won't rotate to the locked position. Do you:
    A. Leave the bolt unlocked and pull the trigger, giving the bolt the same but opposite-direction momentum as the bullet
    B. Remove the round and inspect it and the gun thoroughly to figure out why the bolt won't close

    I know I'd choose B, and hope that anyone who chooses A only hurts themselves and not anyone else. Glad nobody was hurt in your case.
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    CHGOTHNDERCHGOTHNDER Member Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think in this drastic case a SLAP would not be too out of line.

    PJ

    If nobody seen you do it, how could you have done it. NRA Life Member, AF&AM
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    mrmike08075mrmike08075 Member Posts: 10,998 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    guys...
    i did not have RANGE DUTY that day, and only witnessed the end of the incident. i concur that there must have been at least 2 differant / seperate malfunctions occuring at the same time.

    i just cant wrap my head around the fact that he kept firing the gun... he emptied the 1st 50 rd box, and got over 10 rds into the second before he noticed any problem.(over 8 full mags).

    we are pretty helpful at the range. ask around among the RANGE SAFTEY OFFICERS or any standing member and you will get help. the local shop (were i work / lounge) is only 5 minutes away, with a gunsmith inside.i kept 1 of the empty cases to ponder over.

    i do own a large number of vintage firearms that do fine with modern ammo. i just thought that older COLT guns were sometimes suspect.

    thanks for the input.
    best regards, mike.

    What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.
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    duckyducky Member Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I wonder if it was 230gr remington ammunition he used. I've got 6 boxes in quarantine after the first 2rds came out with length-split casings. Inspected every round in each box and all had almost unnoticable crack lines down the length.
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    mrmike08075mrmike08075 Member Posts: 10,998 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    R-P 230 GR +P FMJ
    i kept one of the empties...
    scary event.
    best regards, mike.


    What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.
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    woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Member Posts: 5,378 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Now you can slap him for using the wrong ammo. You didn't say in the begining it was +P ammo.

    Woods



    rockin_lg_clr.gif

    "... there is much truth in the Italian saying, 'Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you.'" -- Benjamin Franklin
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    duckyducky Member Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    that's pretty stupid of him. Common Sense had the day off that day I guess..
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