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RE: Choice for Daughter's Lifelong Gun, .22WMR???
boeboe
Member Posts: 3,331
I am looking for positive affirmation for my logic here, but feel free to tell me the drawbacks as well. I'd like the opportunity to change my mind before I actually do this.
I have two daughters, now 13 and 15 years old. This summer, I plan on giving them their first guns. This first gun will go along with the message that this is the gun Dad has chosen to follow with them the rest of their lives. Dad's want their children to be safe, while they are alive, when they are not there, and after they are gone. Of course, they won't really be getting these in an uncontrolled sense for s few years yet. I will still control the guns. But I got my first gun when I was 12, and want them to remember that Dad gave them this gun when they were at a young age. I also want them to remember that Dad expects them to keep this gun the rest of their lives.
This is my choice, the stainless 941 Taurus .22 WMR with a 2" barrel. I know, many may think this is an inept round for personal self defense. Give me some feedback on that if you care. Personally, I have always thought pretty highly of the .22 WMR in terms of reasonable self defense. From what I have been able to determine, the energy deleveloped from a 2" barrel shooting the .22 WMR is just as good as a full length rifle shooting .22 Long Rifle rounds. The .22 Long Rifle from a handgun may be a bit weak, but I doubt many would want to be hit with a .22 Long Rifle fired from a full length rifle.
I hope there are fans of .22 WMR handguns out there.
Okay, I have already given the first reason I have chosen this gun to follow my daughters the rest of their lives. If that logic os flawed a bit, let me go into other reasons.
The guns is a revolver, and easy to remember how to operate. If my daughers do loose interest in guns, they will probably remember enough about this one to get them by.
The gun is a safe double action revolver. If my daughters ever feel they need to lock it up, it has a hammer lock. If my daughters feel they need to keep it unlocked under their pillow, it will be ready.
The gun is stainless. Even if it is forgotten for years, sitting unused on a closet shelf, no need to worry about one of my girls pulling out a rusty gun when it is needed.
If ever one of my girls feels they need to slip something into their purse, this is a good choice?
I have been able to pack close to 500 rounds of ammo into the original box (these are new guns, in original box). With another brick of ammo, I rather doubt either of my girls will ever shoot this much ammo through the gun, unless maybe one of them does decide to get into law enforcement or something. With what I give them, there should still be some of Dad's original ammo choice available when they are 80 years old.
The .22 WMR, from a short barrels pistol, makes one heck of a racket. And a flash. Anyone standing in front of this will feel some tremendous shock just from the blast and the flash. Maybe that will make them think again. If necessary, there are 7 more rounds.
But recoil is light. With good hearing protection, my girls should be able learn to fire this efficiently. With good hearing protection, my girls will not fear this gun if they ever have to use it.
And, keep in mind, the true stopping power of a gun such as this is a bit misleading. Yes, there are energy levels in terms of the bullet hitting something. But the fact is, an advasary has more to worry about than that. If this gun had to be forced into someone's side and discharged, they will be hit by more than the bullet. They will be hit by the expolsive force of the muzzle blast, which will rip a completely different cavity in their body. If one on my daughters has to grab this gun from the nightstand and put it point blank against a perp, his insides are going to explode, regardless of the actual recorded energy behind the bullet.
Okay, tell me what you think. This will probably not be the last of the guns I give my daughters. I have a few others in mind. But this will be the first, and one I want them to remember.
Not to mention, this is a nice and shiney looking gun for a lady.
MEMBER SINCE 10/24/1999.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.
I have two daughters, now 13 and 15 years old. This summer, I plan on giving them their first guns. This first gun will go along with the message that this is the gun Dad has chosen to follow with them the rest of their lives. Dad's want their children to be safe, while they are alive, when they are not there, and after they are gone. Of course, they won't really be getting these in an uncontrolled sense for s few years yet. I will still control the guns. But I got my first gun when I was 12, and want them to remember that Dad gave them this gun when they were at a young age. I also want them to remember that Dad expects them to keep this gun the rest of their lives.
This is my choice, the stainless 941 Taurus .22 WMR with a 2" barrel. I know, many may think this is an inept round for personal self defense. Give me some feedback on that if you care. Personally, I have always thought pretty highly of the .22 WMR in terms of reasonable self defense. From what I have been able to determine, the energy deleveloped from a 2" barrel shooting the .22 WMR is just as good as a full length rifle shooting .22 Long Rifle rounds. The .22 Long Rifle from a handgun may be a bit weak, but I doubt many would want to be hit with a .22 Long Rifle fired from a full length rifle.
I hope there are fans of .22 WMR handguns out there.
Okay, I have already given the first reason I have chosen this gun to follow my daughters the rest of their lives. If that logic os flawed a bit, let me go into other reasons.
The guns is a revolver, and easy to remember how to operate. If my daughers do loose interest in guns, they will probably remember enough about this one to get them by.
The gun is a safe double action revolver. If my daughters ever feel they need to lock it up, it has a hammer lock. If my daughters feel they need to keep it unlocked under their pillow, it will be ready.
The gun is stainless. Even if it is forgotten for years, sitting unused on a closet shelf, no need to worry about one of my girls pulling out a rusty gun when it is needed.
If ever one of my girls feels they need to slip something into their purse, this is a good choice?
I have been able to pack close to 500 rounds of ammo into the original box (these are new guns, in original box). With another brick of ammo, I rather doubt either of my girls will ever shoot this much ammo through the gun, unless maybe one of them does decide to get into law enforcement or something. With what I give them, there should still be some of Dad's original ammo choice available when they are 80 years old.
The .22 WMR, from a short barrels pistol, makes one heck of a racket. And a flash. Anyone standing in front of this will feel some tremendous shock just from the blast and the flash. Maybe that will make them think again. If necessary, there are 7 more rounds.
But recoil is light. With good hearing protection, my girls should be able learn to fire this efficiently. With good hearing protection, my girls will not fear this gun if they ever have to use it.
And, keep in mind, the true stopping power of a gun such as this is a bit misleading. Yes, there are energy levels in terms of the bullet hitting something. But the fact is, an advasary has more to worry about than that. If this gun had to be forced into someone's side and discharged, they will be hit by more than the bullet. They will be hit by the expolsive force of the muzzle blast, which will rip a completely different cavity in their body. If one on my daughters has to grab this gun from the nightstand and put it point blank against a perp, his insides are going to explode, regardless of the actual recorded energy behind the bullet.
Okay, tell me what you think. This will probably not be the last of the guns I give my daughters. I have a few others in mind. But this will be the first, and one I want them to remember.
Not to mention, this is a nice and shiney looking gun for a lady.
MEMBER SINCE 10/24/1999.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.
Comments
That is one nice looking gun. It even appears to have adjustable sights. Holding 8 rounds is great. I would even kinda like to have one for myself.
But for my daughter I got her a Tarus model 85 stainless 5 shot .38 special no visible hammer (bobbed) model in double action only.
Reason being this is the smallest caliber I will trust to be a "stopping round". Smaller calibers can easily be a "killing" round, but they, to me, are not a stopping round. And that killing might not take place until long after the perp has had the time and energy to continue to harm my daughter.
I wish her revolver had adjustable sights as that would make it more of a fun gun to shoot. But .38 special wadcutter reloads can be purchased fairly cheaply at the local indoor gun range and they are light target loads so there is not much in the way of muzzel blast or recoil. the "hammerless" factor is so that if she ever has to yank the revolver out of her pocket or purse, there is no hammer spur to hangup the gun from clearing the pocket or purse. The double action only is to prevent her from, when under stress, being mometerialy frozen with indecision of "do I cock the hammer or just pull the trigger" as from what I have read and seen stress can mess with your mind. So when under stress, the fewer things you have to think about, the faster and better you will react.
For home or street protection there are a myriad number of excellent self-defense loads available in .38 +P. Probably more good self-defense loads available in this caliber than in any other.
I would not rely on the close range "muzzle blast" factor as to be able to use this would mean that your daughter and the perp were basically going "hand-to-hand" and I doubt you ever want that to happen. Also, picture yourself facing down a drugged-up or determined 250 lb. perp. Would you have much faith in a .22 rimfire?
JMHO, and I am sure others will have more and better thoughts to offer. I wish the best for you and your daughters.
i bought my first wife a browning hi power in 9mm she was to petite to handle the recoil and let the slide action work. always jambing empty round between slide and barrel. i bought the lady smith let my buddy take her and show her to shoot it. (we got into an argument when i was showing her how to shoot the browning) within 30 min she was busting a can at 20 paces consistantly.
Massive 500 S&W Magnumr Cartridge - 2600 ft/lb. Muzzle Energy. But that is jest me. [:D]
But I also think that fox is right.
www.operationdearabby.net
True the .22 magnum is deadly but without a heart, neck or head shot you risk a ongoing physical confrontation, not enough initial/immediate body trama with this round.
Have them practice with .38 special loads and advise them to load up with +P Corbons for self defense. If they every have to shoot the +P's in self defense they will be so adrenalized the added recoil of the +P's will not be a factor.
Hope this helps.
JC
Don't "F" with kitty!!
Seecamp in .32acp
check one out: item=32320875
SORRY, can't get the link to work. Do a search with the item #.
I have been able to pack close to 500 rounds of ammo into the original box (these are new guns, in original box). With another brick of ammo, I rather doubt either of my girls will ever shoot this much ammo through the gun, unless maybe one of them does decide to get into law enforcement or something. With what I give them, there should still be some of Dad's original ammo choice available when they are 80 years old.
Trying to teach good handgun marksmanship with a 2" barrel is difficult and would require at least 5x as much ammo as you have alloted to last them until 80 years old.
Stainless steel is not magical steel. Women have alkalai (sp?) in their perspiration. Be sure to teach them to wipe them down with an oily rag.
I always recommend a single action .22 to learn handgun marksmanship with.
my two cents
Semper Fi
Remember Ruby Ridge.
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
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"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the french." (Mark Twain)
How about getting your daughters a nice made in America gun like a Smith & Wesson?
22WMR, IMHO, is a soon to be dead cartridge. If your are going to go 22 get them 22lr's. 22WMR is too expensive to enjoy and shoot enough of. Why stick your daughters with an odd ball cartridge? Also why stick em with a gun that will depreciate? Get them a gun that they can treasure and pass on that has some heritage and if need be future resale value.
I agree, revolver, is the way to go because it's simple but go with 22lr of 38spl.
Regards,
In addition I consider Tauras a "friend" of gun buyer because the company has for years made high quality guns, offered a very wide variety and kept the price down so as to be more affordable.
And while S&W is no longer run by the same management that a few years ago caved in to the Clinton administration and cut a "special" deal which didn't help civilian gun rights, now S&W is owned by a British Co. so it is not truly an American company.
Plus I believe, not sure, but I think some Taurus guns are made in America.
JMHO
Daniel.
i think youre setting yourself up for a mistake. telling your kids this is what dad wants you to have for the rest of their lives forces them to keep something that might not be what they need or can shoot well. thus, the student is forced to deal with something they dont like out of respect for dad, not common sense.
let the shooter decide what they will trust their own lives to based on training, education, research, and comfort.
guns are like shoes, you buy the right shoe for the right occasion.
buy the 22wmr to teach shooting. go with the 4" bbl. 2" is strictly for conceal and packing. small guns for purses shouldnt have hammers, big front blades, and adj sights.
buy a 32 or 38 to protect them with.
the bullet is already thru the target by the time the boom is heard. teach them proper shooting and caliber wont matter.
looks and bang factor should take back seat to fit and trigger and sight operation.
there is no such thing as a do all gun. do your girls all wear the same color clothes?
guns are fitted to people, not a bunch of people. try wearing your friends shoes someday to get my point.
control and comfort increases confidence.
practice increases confidence.
lots of practice is expensive.
so what.
enjoy and i hope your girls will appreciate your generosity.[;)]
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, former navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction. NRA certified instructor.
Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
Former NSSA All American
Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
MO, CT, VA.
That is good news indeed.
Regardless of your decision, you are one hell of a father, to be thinking about this already[^]. Good luck.
O Lord,
grant me the Serenity
to accept the things
I cannot change
the courage to change the things I can,
and the supreme firepower to make the difference.
I wanted to make the Taurus 22 WMR their first gun, and one which would indeed follow them the rest of their lives. I had hoped that maybe the Taurus would be enough, I was trying to financially economize my decisions, but you have made me see my original plan is probably what I need to stick with. My original plan was to make sure they ended up with a few different firearms, that I would acquire over the next few years. I have intended to include a Makarov for each of them and an HS2000 (same as Springfield Armory XD) for each of them. I have one of each of these, just want to get one more of each so each would receive the same things. These, in turn, could someday be passed along to my grandchildren, at the right time.
It's just that passing along five or six guns to each of them started to seem to be an overstatement on Dad's part.
My daughters are not the typical young girls around firearms, I had them bump firing my M11/9 and AK47 a couple of years ago. You can imagine a couple of girls that age out in a Kansas wheat field bump firing those sorts of firearms, and they liked it. They met Mark Christian during one of our trips to CA, they are well aware that Dad and his friends are gun nuts. We have gone to a couple of gunshows together. I am hoping they will retain their own personal positive experiences with guns and gun folk.
Thanks again.
MEMBER SINCE 10/24/1999.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.
and extra smooth SA for the range. Hits like a sledgehammer, has the speed to spread the hollow point and won't bounce around all over the place like .22wmr.
Costs about $350, is lockable, is great for small hands, and would last a lifetime and, in my opinion, will be something they will develop a preference for. Very good-looking, very concealable, and comes with a good guarantee and a membership in the S&W Club 1852, which entitles them to free safety CD and a multitude of benefits in annual mailers free of charge.
I taught my wife, who has small hands and a little arthritis, on this 637. Nailed a Coca Cola box to a tree and she hit with all five rounds from 10 paces on her first try. I bought her a Berretta .380, she didn't like it, so I let her shoot a Model 19 Smith, a P-64, and an S&W 9mm auto and she said, "Give me back my little Smith!" She loves it, it's hers, end of story.[^]
Frog.
RiBBButt...You can't rollerskate in a buffalo herd, but you can be happy if you've a mind to.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=32415329
One of the above is a hammerless .38 Spl. and the other is the Model 637 Airweight my wife has, which does have a trigger, but can shoot the .38Spl+p as well as the .38 Spl. The .38Spl lead round nose or FMJ can be had at about $8.00 a 50 round box for the range in UMC, Blazer, PMC, Federal American Eagle, Winchester, etc., and the .38Spl+p personal defense rounds are available as Remington Golden Sabre, Speer Gold Dot and several other premium grade presentations, costing more, but delivering devastating performance. According to my understanding, it is the NO. 1 choice for the back-up gun among professionals nation-wide.
I like the hammered model because of the accuracy you can produce when squeezing off single action with the 637 Airweight. I shot several 4-inch groups with my wife's at thirty+ feet. Very impressive for a 1 7/8" snubby. I was shooting Remington UMC .38Spl+p 125 gr. Semi-Jacketed Hollow Points (L38S2B), available at Walmart in a 100-round box for a little over $20.00.
Frog.
RiBBButt...You can't rollerskate in a buffalo herd, but you can be happy if you've a mind to.
Figuring 8 shot 22 WMR from a revolver, each round, delivers 175 ft/lbs of energy, total in 8 shot Taurus is 1400 ft/lbs.
Figuring 5 shots in 38 special revolver, at 235 ft/lbs each round, total is 1175 ft/lbs in the five shot revolver.
So in same size revolver, 8 shots in 22 WMR or 5 shots in 38 special, the 22 WMR revolver actually, in total, has more power. At the same size handgun.
Looking at my daughters, would I prefer that they have five shots from a 38, or 8 shots from the 22 WMR? Maybe there is a bit of "spray and pray" from the 22 WMR Taurus, maybe in 8 shots, they will hit the perp twice compared to once from the 5 shot 38. These are my daughters, after all. I do hope that they do grow up and continuw an interest in guns, but I can't guarantee that.
Oh well. Given overall total power available from the gun, I think the 8 shot Taurus is still reasonable.
Thanks again.
MEMBER SINCE 10/24/1999.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.
Either weapon will do the trick, for sure. It's familiarity with the firearm and proficiency at firing it that makes the difference in a split second confrontation.
I'm sure you will teach them and insist they practice a lot.
See you, boeboe,
Frog.
RiBBButt...You can't rollerskate in a buffalo herd, but you can be happy if you've a mind to. -Roger Miller