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Rackop and vets.
Oakie
Member Posts: 39,505 ✭✭✭✭
Sorry if I offended any of you. That was not my intentions. Was just stating that welfare people are treated better then our vets in Grumpy's post. Seems you guys were a little offended and set the record straight. Apologies, Oakie
Comments
Sorry if I offended any of you. That was not my intentions. Was just stating that welfare people are treated better then our vets in Grumpy's post. Seems you guys were a little offended and set the record straight. Apologies, Oakie
Under the current administration vets have not been treated well at all. IMHO VA scandal was an abomination. Appointments to lead and manage agencies such as the VA should be based on empirical experience and qualifications rather than partisanship. I for one was not offended.
I just am very wary of the entitlement mentality....regardless of it being "earned" or not.
As to welfare people being treated "better", I disagree. Living as a dependent of Uncle Sugar almost certainly condemns them to poverty forever. Take away any incentive to thrive...and they never will, not even the able bodied. They know nothing but dependency.
Obviously, some vets carry physical and emotional scars that prevent them from being able to care for themselves.....the same with society as a whole.
oakie...I was not offended....if that was the impression my thread gave you, then you have MY apologies.
I just am very wary of the entitlement mentality....regardless of it being "earned" or not.
As to welfare people being treated "better", I disagree. Living as a dependent of Uncle Sugar almost certainly condemns them to poverty forever. Take away any incentive to thrive...and they never will, not even the able bodied. They know nothing but dependency.
Obviously, some vets carry physical and emotional scars that prevent them from being able to care for themselves.....the same with society as a whole.
That was by design,.....a liberal design none-the-less[8] Keep them down, blame the conservatives, and watch the votes pour in,..generation after generation.
vets vote conservative for the most part,..so they will provide little in the way of securing elections.
vets vote conservative for the most part,..so they will provide little in the way of securing elections.
Unless they become a dependent class all their own.
Older Americans have typically been a solid conservative voting bloc....but that's changing, as more and more are becoming dependent on Social Security and Medicare.
You can argue the semantics of the benefit being "earned" or not all day long......but the point is that these people DEPEND on getting a government check every month. They will never support changes in these systems that are necessary, because they can't afford the monetary loss.
I see the same thing happening to Veterans....more and more are becoming dependent on Gov't programs and payments.
Let me provide a small example. There is a guy that served with me throughout my enlistment. We enlisted about the same time, were assigned to the same unit, had the same jobs/responsibilities, went overseas together, came home together, and go out together.
He decided to go the route of taking anything that was offered to him. He drew unemployment for awhile, then took the GI bill while he went to college. He also filed for VA disability for a myriad of conditions I can with certainty state he does not have.
Meanwhile, I took a job working night/weekend security at a local hospital and also started college, eventually earning my degree.
He was awarded 100% disability...gets a decent sized monthly check. If I understand the VA payment system correctly, he's currently getting just shy of 3K a month.
Since he was getting so much money, there was no incentive for him to finish school before the GI bill ran out....so he didn't. He burned through his GI Bill, and now doesn't have a degree to show for it. Not that it matters anyway, because getting a good job would threaten his "totally unemployable" status.
For the first 4 years or so, his income was higher than mine, even though I was working and he was partying. Once I finished school and got a better job, that changed. Now my income is significantly more than his...and can increase even more based on hard work and career choices.....the same as everyone else.
For him, however, his own choices and a misguided sense of "thanks" from the country have locked him into nothing better than whatever Uncle Sugar deems fit to give him.
Maybe, just maybe, if he had to work for his money (like everyone else) he'd be a successful, contributing citizen. The guy wasn't dumb, just lazy.
Again: Some people, veterans and not, have injuries, conditions, or illnesses that make it impossible for them to take care of themselves or to do so without assistance. I believe our society is better for taking care of them....but anyone who can take care of themselves should do so, regardless of whether they were in the military or not.
quote:Originally posted by JustC
vets vote conservative for the most part,..so they will provide little in the way of securing elections.
Unless they become a dependent class all their own.
Older Americans have typically been a solid conservative voting bloc....but that's changing, as more and more are becoming dependent on Social Security and Medicare.
You can argue the semantics of the benefit being "earned" or not all day long......but the point is that these people DEPEND on getting a government check every month. They will never support changes in these systems that are necessary, because they can't afford the monetary loss.
I see the same thing happening to Veterans....more and more are becoming dependent on Gov't programs and payments.
Let me provide a small example. There is a guy that served with me throughout my enlistment. We enlisted about the same time, were assigned to the same unit, had the same jobs/responsibilities, went overseas together, came home together, and go out together.
He decided to go the route of taking anything that was offered to him. He drew unemployment for awhile, then took the GI bill while he went to college. He also filed for VA disability for a myriad of conditions I can with certainty state he does not have.
Meanwhile, I took a job working night/weekend security at a local hospital and also started college, eventually earning my degree.
He was awarded 100% disability...gets a decent sized monthly check. If I understand the VA payment system correctly, he's currently getting just shy of 3K a month.
Since he was getting so much money, there was no incentive for him to finish school before the GI bill ran out....so he didn't. He burned through his GI Bill, and now doesn't have a degree to show for it. Not that it matters anyway, because getting a good job would threaten his "totally unemployable" status.
For the first 4 years or so, his income was higher than mine, even though I was working and he was partying. Once I finished school and got a better job, that changed. Now my income is significantly more than his...and can increase even more based on hard work and career choices.....the same as everyone else.
For him, however, his own choices and a misguided sense of "thanks" from the country have locked him into nothing better than whatever Uncle Sugar deems fit to give him.
Maybe, just maybe, if he had to work for his money (like everyone else) he'd be a successful, contributing citizen. The guy wasn't dumb, just lazy.
Again: Some people, veterans and not, have injuries, conditions, or illnesses that make it impossible for them to take care of themselves or to do so without assistance. I believe our society is better for taking care of them....but anyone who can take care of themselves should do so, regardless of whether they were in the military or not.
I fully understand your interpretation of the abuses. The thing is, that in order to restore personal responsibility, wouldn't it behoove the VA to employ people to detect these "fakes"??? and also in the welfare system??
I can see your point on the social security recipients as well. I do however belong to the crowd that believes that SS is earned rather than being an entitlement. People contribute to SS, not even willingly, during their time as a productive, employed member of society. That is their money, that the gov't said it would invest for them (yeahhhhh riggghhhhtttt) and have available for them at a certain age. The inevitable failure of that system will be due to self serving politicians who knew they wouldn't be in office when it does fail. Some of this money was used for programs that will NEVER be able to return the money, even without interest. Now I also believe, NO PUT IN,.....NO TAKE OUT!!![:(!]
would it be possible to think that the dumbing down of society, the installation of the sewer that is "political correctness", and various other feel-good liberal programs has begun to affect the thought processes of folks who would have otherwise maintained personal responsibility had they not been bombarded every day with just such "social programming"???? People just like the soldier you served with??[?]
quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
quote:Originally posted by JustC
vets vote conservative for the most part,..so they will provide little in the way of securing elections.
Unless they become a dependent class all their own.
Older Americans have typically been a solid conservative voting bloc....but that's changing, as more and more are becoming dependent on Social Security and Medicare.
You can argue the semantics of the benefit being "earned" or not all day long......but the point is that these people DEPEND on getting a government check every month. They will never support changes in these systems that are necessary, because they can't afford the monetary loss.
I see the same thing happening to Veterans....more and more are becoming dependent on Gov't programs and payments.
Let me provide a small example. There is a guy that served with me throughout my enlistment. We enlisted about the same time, were assigned to the same unit, had the same jobs/responsibilities, went overseas together, came home together, and go out together.
He decided to go the route of taking anything that was offered to him. He drew unemployment for awhile, then took the GI bill while he went to college. He also filed for VA disability for a myriad of conditions I can with certainty state he does not have.
Meanwhile, I took a job working night/weekend security at a local hospital and also started college, eventually earning my degree.
He was awarded 100% disability...gets a decent sized monthly check. If I understand the VA payment system correctly, he's currently getting just shy of 3K a month.
Since he was getting so much money, there was no incentive for him to finish school before the GI bill ran out....so he didn't. He burned through his GI Bill, and now doesn't have a degree to show for it. Not that it matters anyway, because getting a good job would threaten his "totally unemployable" status.
For the first 4 years or so, his income was higher than mine, even though I was working and he was partying. Once I finished school and got a better job, that changed. Now my income is significantly more than his...and can increase even more based on hard work and career choices.....the same as everyone else.
For him, however, his own choices and a misguided sense of "thanks" from the country have locked him into nothing better than whatever Uncle Sugar deems fit to give him.
Maybe, just maybe, if he had to work for his money (like everyone else) he'd be a successful, contributing citizen. The guy wasn't dumb, just lazy.
Again: Some people, veterans and not, have injuries, conditions, or illnesses that make it impossible for them to take care of themselves or to do so without assistance. I believe our society is better for taking care of them....but anyone who can take care of themselves should do so, regardless of whether they were in the military or not.
I fully understand your interpretation of the abuses. The thing is, that in order to restore personal responsibility, wouldn't it behoove the VA to employ people to detect these "fakes"??? and also in the welfare system??
I can see your point on the social security recipients as well. I do however belong to the crowd that believes that SS is earned rather than being an entitlement. People contribute to SS, not even willingly, during their time as a productive, employed member of society. That is their money, that the gov't said it would invest for them (yeahhhhh riggghhhhtttt) and have available for them at a certain age. The inevitable failure of that system will be due to self serving politicians who knew they wouldn't be in office when it does fail. Some of this money was used for programs that will NEVER be able to return the money, even without interest. Now I also believe, NO PUT IN,.....NO TAKE OUT!!![:(!]
would it be possible to think that the dumbing down of society, the installation of the sewer that is "political correctness", and various other feel-good liberal programs has begun to affect the thought processes of folks who would have otherwise maintained personal responsibility had they not been bombarded every day with just such "social programming"???? People just like the soldier you served with??[?]
The problem is they go from one extreme to another. To get rid of the fakes they will stop a lot who really need it.
Just not sure how this should be handled.
My only theory thus far, would cost as much as the benefits, and that is (until this point my theory has only been aimed at welfare) to spy on the recipients/applicants.
I don't think you realize how pervasive it is. According to the VA, 45% of returning Iraq and Afghanistan vets are claiming a service-related disability.
It's completely ridiculous......this is what I'm talking about when I say veterans are being turned into an entitlement class.