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Chain saw chain question

bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,664 ✭✭✭✭
edited April 2011 in General Discussion
I have some chains that are too long from use. The teeth are fine with plenty of life remaining.

Can links be removed to shorten the chain? If you do take out links do you have to worry about the drive teeth spacing?

Both saws are Stihl one a 036 PRO and the other a 021.

Comments

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    Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,260 ******
    edited November -1
    yes links can be removed, and no, you don't really have to worry about tooth spacing at one link.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
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    MVPMVP Member Posts: 25,074
    edited November -1
    Best to stop by a saw shop with your chain and have them shorten it.
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    NwcidNwcid Member Posts: 10,674
    edited November -1
    Correct about removing a link being no problem.

    Under normal use that shouldn't happen though. Make sure you are getting plenty of oil. Make sure you are not running your chain too tight and that you sharpen often. Heat from lack of oil, too much tension or heat from trying to cut with dull teeth are what cause that.

    Of course there will always be some minor stretch but enough to need to remove a links indicates a problem.
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    Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,260 ******
    edited November -1
    with regard to chain tightness, you should be able to pull the chain out of the groove in the bar just until you can barely see the tip of the drive dog. any more it is too slack, any less it is too tight.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • Options
    bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,664 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks, I have been cutting dead dry locust, I add extra oil and grease to help but that stuff is HARD, it stretches chains. It is also the best firewood I have ever burned.

    I will go to a saw shop and get some master links for repair.
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    n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    If your chains are stretching, you are getting them too hot. I would NOT shorten a stretched chain for saftey reasons. It is bound to break.

    Be sure your oiler is working properly and that you keep chains sharp.
    Also, I hope you are using a bar oil with a tackifier and not used motor oil.
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    Alan RushingAlan Rushing Member Posts: 9,002 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    per all of the above responses.
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    GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932
    edited November -1
    +1 on locust for firewood, it almost burns like coal.
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    bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,664 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dennisnielsen
    BUY A STIHL......uh,what was the question?


    I really love this place, it always puts a smile on my face... [:D][:D]
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    bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,664 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by freemind
    If your chains are stretching, you are getting them too hot. I would NOT shorten a stretched chain for saftey reasons. It is bound to break.

    Be sure your oiler is working properly and that you keep chains sharp.
    Also, I hope you are using a bar oil with a tackifier and not used motor oil.

    Stihl saws, Stihl chains, Stihl bar oil, Stihl synthetic two-stroke oil, Stihl hard hat with face guard-ear protection, Stihl saw files, Stihl carry boxes and Stihl bar protectors.

    Did I mention Stihl???? [:D]
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    n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    quote:Originally posted by freemind
    If your chains are stretching, you are getting them too hot. I would NOT shorten a stretched chain for saftey reasons. It is bound to break.

    Be sure your oiler is working properly and that you keep chains sharp.
    Also, I hope you are using a bar oil with a tackifier and not used motor oil.

    Stihl saws, Stihl chains, Stihl bar oil, Stihl synthetic two-stroke oil, Stihl hard hat with face guard-ear protection, Stihl saw files, Stihl carry boxes and Stihl bar protectors.

    Did I mention Stihl???? [:D]


    No chaps? A cheap investment to save your legs.

    And I still would NOT have the chains shortened. You are trying to hog through it too fast and you are getting your chains too hot.

    If you have the chains shortened and they break, we are gonna be able to call you stumpy! [:I] OR perhaps scarface. [8)]
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    allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,229 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have been cutting hell out of dry locust for 14 years with my Stihl 028, and my Stihl 039. I have a stone fireplace, and a woodstove, I live in the cold windy NC mountains and I burn a lot of wood.

    I have never had a chain stretch to the point where I could not tighten it, and I have worn out 5 or 6 chains in these years.
    That is an odd problem that you have, are you sure you are tightening it all the way?


    By the way that is great firewood, the best available in the US.
    It is even better than oak.
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    jwb267jwb267 Member Posts: 19,666 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    DO NOT shorten a stretched chain! i have a scar and learned the hard way.
    the only way a chain should be shortened is if you acquired, say a 20'chain and you have a 16" bar
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    HandLoadHandLoad Member Posts: 15,998
    edited November -1
    When a chain wears, it gets longer. That means that the Drive Sprags are now longer between one and the next - this is NOT Good, as it focuses all the drive power on one sprag, and it will accelerate the wear at the Drive Sprocket (lives beneath the Clutch housing, usually). If the chain has worn enough that you run out of adjustment, it needs to be replaced, PERIOD.

    The Pitch of the Drive Sprags needs to match the Pitch of the drive sprocket!

    Chains are a lot cheaper than Drive sprockets, as they are usually part of the Driven Element of the Clutch Housing.
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    fishkiller41fishkiller41 Member Posts: 50,608
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jwb267
    DO NOT shorten a stretched chain! i have a scar and learned the hard way.
    the only way a chain should be shortened is if you acquired, say a 20'chain and you have a 16" bar
    WARNING: If the chain meant for your bar,is no longer able to be used,THROW IT AWAY and buy a new one!!
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    NwcidNwcid Member Posts: 10,674
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by fishkiller41
    quote:Originally posted by jwb267
    DO NOT shorten a stretched chain! i have a scar and learned the hard way.
    the only way a chain should be shortened is if you acquired, say a 20'chain and you have a 16" bar
    WARNING: If the chain meant for your bar,is no longer able to be used,THROW IT AWAY and buy a new one!!


    I disagree. We were in the power equipment business for 2 decades and sold ~500,000 feet of chain a year.

    One link out of a chain will not be the end of the world. It happens. I cant tell you how many I have done that with.

    Also just because you change bar LENGTHS (not drive pitch) there is no need to throw away a good chain when it can be shortened to that length. ALL chain comes of bulk rolls somewhere to be cut to length. So there is no reason that you can not cut it or add to it for length if you change bar LENGHT.

    If you change bar pitch then you will need a new sprocket of that pitch and the proper pitch chain.
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    reloader44magreloader44mag Member Posts: 18,783 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    adjust your bar
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    MVPMVP Member Posts: 25,074
    edited November -1
    You should have bought a John Deere.

    Added: I hope that response didn't actually need a green font to make sense.[:D]
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    Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,260 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    quote:Originally posted by freemind
    If your chains are stretching, you are getting them too hot. I would NOT shorten a stretched chain for saftey reasons. It is bound to break.

    Be sure your oiler is working properly and that you keep chains sharp.
    Also, I hope you are using a bar oil with a tackifier and not used motor oil.

    Stihl saws, Stihl chains, Stihl bar oil, Stihl synthetic two-stroke oil, Stihl hard hat with face guard-ear protection, Stihl saw files, Stihl carry boxes and Stihl bar protectors.

    Did I mention Stihl???? [:D]
    I prefer Oregon bars and chain, but Stihl...
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
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    perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    Hello Bruce . I sell Stihl and Echo Chain saws as others have stated There are many chains that are not interchangeable. Think of it Just Like Tires. different size rims and different width Tires. The groove in the bar can be .043 .050 .058 .063 needless to say you cant put a wide chain in a narrow groove bar but just as bad a narrow chain in a wide groove will not be properly supported. Now for the other difference. The chain pitch is the distance between Drive links. You put the wrong one on your bar and it is one with a sproket on the end you start the saw and in 10 seconds you ruin not only the chain but also the Clutch sprocket and the Bar. Take it to someone that knows what you need Just because both saws are the same brand means NOTHING. we sell one model that may have 12 different chains.
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    GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by MVP
    You should have bought a John Deere.

    Added: I hope that response didn't actually need a green font to make sense.[:D]
    [:D]
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    NavybatNavybat Member Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bars have a link count as part of the standard description of the chain to fit. I would NOT remove links, as the teeth will not fit into the grooves/drive properly.

    I would stick with the manufacturer's link/size recommendations. Chains are not expensive.

    Having said that, a pro shop can make chains for you and can adjust the chains you have.
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    woodshed87woodshed87 Member Posts: 25,785
    edited November -1
    Buy A New Chain Its Cheaper Than Stitches in Yer Knee
    And Will Only Hurt Yer Wallet A Bit!!!!![:D]
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    fideaufideau Member Posts: 11,893 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Never had one stretch either. Never heard of that problem getting beyond bar adjustment. Haven't cut Locust but Oak, Hickory and Dogwood are pretty hard.
    If it's that bad I wouldn't use them any longer.
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    LesWVaLesWVa Member Posts: 10,490 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    quote:Originally posted by freemind
    If your chains are stretching, you are getting them too hot. I would NOT shorten a stretched chain for saftey reasons. It is bound to break.

    Be sure your oiler is working properly and that you keep chains sharp.
    Also, I hope you are using a bar oil with a tackifier and not used motor oil.

    Stihl saws, Stihl chains, Stihl bar oil, Stihl synthetic two-stroke oil, Stihl hard hat with face guard-ear protection, Stihl saw files, Stihl carry boxes and Stihl bar protectors.

    Did I mention Stihl???? [:D]


    We cut'n wood or hunting Elk on the High Dollar Ranch for the Hunting Channel?
  • Options
    lee_danlee_dan Member Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Keep chain sharp --- it won't overheat
    make sure you file down your rakers
    each time you sharpen --
    Edit:
    The cut wood chip will help keep the chain cool --

    Lee

    Rakers

    By Tim Ard



    Ah, those little guys on the front of the saw chain tooth. With only a little swipe of the file, I can make this chain saw really cut!

    Some call them Rakers, some call them Drags, others, like I do, refer to them as Depth Gauges. Whatever you technically want to call them. Some people abuse them, some confuse them, and some just don't realize how they work and what they do for you.

    I often hear, "they are to be left alone". "Don't mess with them." Others say to, "take them down first thing on a new chain." Most common exchange of thought is, "you really don't have to do anything with them. They will wear down as you use the chain."

    In answer, first I would recommend. if you don't understand them leave them alone but, take them and the rest of the chain, to a professional shop for sharpening and depth gauge settings.

    You have to adjust them. Look at the chain tooth. The top plate area, as you file it back, goes downward toward the end of the top plate. As you file the cutting surface of the tooth back, the depth gauge will grow. Maybe not grow, but stick up past the tooth point. The results, you will either have to set them properly or you will have to apply so much pressure to the saw to get it to cut, it will be dangerous for the saw, saw chain, guide bar and You.

    Taking the depth gauges down on a new chain or at any point of the chain life, below manufacturer's specs is not a good idea. Check the specifications on your saw chain and make sure you use proper tools to maintain the settings as close as possible. With hand tools it's hard to keep everything perfect, but dropping them too much below design can mean a lot of grabbing, chatter and possibly loss of control.

    Well, finally the last statement is somewhat true. They will possibly wear down a little on their own in abrasive conditions. Nevertheless, under normal cutting of wood, not rocks, etc., the hardened surface of the depth gauge is not likely to wear very much. At least not wear to the tune of an exact thousands of an inch.

    Proper Depth Gauge checks and adjustments during the filing/sharpening process are as important as having two-cycle oil in your fuel mix. You can cause a lot of damage taking them for granted.
  • Options
    bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,664 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks Lee, I have a raker depth gauge and file them as needed to maintain the proper tooth bite.
  • Options
    lee_danlee_dan Member Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    Thanks Lee, I have a raker depth gauge and file them as needed to maintain the proper tooth bite.


    Good deal --

    I've run into several cutters who do a lot of trees each year
    and don't know what a RAKER is --

    Good luck

    Lee
  • Options
    allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,229 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by lee_dan
    Keep chain sharp --- it won't overheat
    make sure you file down your rakers
    each time you sharpen --
    Edit:
    The cut wood chip will help keep the chain cool --

    Lee

    Rakers

    By Tim Ard



    Ah, those little guys on the front of the saw chain tooth. With only a little swipe of the file, I can make this chain saw really cut!

    Some call them Rakers, some call them Drags, others, like I do, refer to them as Depth Gauges. Whatever you technically want to call them. Some people abuse them, some confuse them, and some just don't realize how they work and what they do for you.

    I often hear, "they are to be left alone". "Don't mess with them." Others say to, "take them down first thing on a new chain." Most common exchange of thought is, "you really don't have to do anything with them. They will wear down as you use the chain."

    In answer, first I would recommend. if you don't understand them leave them alone but, take them and the rest of the chain, to a professional shop for sharpening and depth gauge settings.

    You have to adjust them. Look at the chain tooth. The top plate area, as you file it back, goes downward toward the end of the top plate. As you file the cutting surface of the tooth back, the depth gauge will grow. Maybe not grow, but stick up past the tooth point. The results, you will either have to set them properly or you will have to apply so much pressure to the saw to get it to cut, it will be dangerous for the saw, saw chain, guide bar and You.

    Taking the depth gauges down on a new chain or at any point of the chain life, below manufacturer's specs is not a good idea. Check the specifications on your saw chain and make sure you use proper tools to maintain the settings as close as possible. With hand tools it's hard to keep everything perfect, but dropping them too much below design can mean a lot of grabbing, chatter and possibly loss of control.

    Well, finally the last statement is somewhat true. They will possibly wear down a little on their own in abrasive conditions. Nevertheless, under normal cutting of wood, not rocks, etc., the hardened surface of the depth gauge is not likely to wear very much. At least not wear to the tune of an exact thousands of an inch.

    Proper Depth Gauge checks and adjustments during the filing/sharpening process are as important as having two-cycle oil in your fuel mix. You can cause a lot of damage taking them for granted.



    That is a good point, Lee.
    Yes you have to file down the depth gauges. I have a special little file for that, looks like a regular, little file but it has no teeth on the edges.
    About every third time I sharpen the chain I take a little off of the depth gauges.

    "Leave them alone."

    Not good advice, as you said, the saw won't cut properly if you don't file down those depth gauges.
  • Options
    NavybatNavybat Member Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    I have some chains that are too long from use. The teeth are fine with plenty of life remaining.

    Can links be removed to shorten the chain? If you do take out links do you have to worry about the drive teeth spacing?

    Both saws are Stihl one a 036 PRO and the other a 021.


    Once again, I think this post has gotten off topic. Let's help bpost with his question, shall we? I've given my opinion, that is to NOT remove links. Chains are cheap. What does everyone else say?
  • Options
    n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Navybat
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    I have some chains that are too long from use. The teeth are fine with plenty of life remaining.

    Can links be removed to shorten the chain? If you do take out links do you have to worry about the drive teeth spacing?

    Both saws are Stihl one a 036 PRO and the other a 021.


    Once again, I think this post has gotten off topic. Let's help bpost with his question, shall we? I've given my opinion, that is to NOT remove links. Chains are cheap. What does everyone else say?


    I belive the majority have warned about NOT doing it. A few have supported it, and I imagine from Bruce's silence, he is gonna shorten the chains.

    It is his saw and his body parts. He is gonna do whatever he chooses to.
  • Options
    Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,260 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by freemind
    quote:Originally posted by Navybat
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    I have some chains that are too long from use. The teeth are fine with plenty of life remaining.

    Can links be removed to shorten the chain? If you do take out links do you have to worry about the drive teeth spacing?

    Both saws are Stihl one a 036 PRO and the other a 021.


    Once again, I think this post has gotten off topic. Let's help bpost with his question, shall we? I've given my opinion, that is to NOT remove links. Chains are cheap. What does everyone else say?


    I belive the majority have warned about NOT doing it. A few have supported it, and I imagine from Bruce's silence, he is gonna shorten the chains.

    It is his saw and his body parts. He is gonna do whatever he chooses to.
    I don't think it ever got off topic did it?[?][?]
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • Options
    n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    quote:Originally posted by freemind
    quote:Originally posted by Navybat
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    I have some chains that are too long from use. The teeth are fine with plenty of life remaining.

    Can links be removed to shorten the chain? If you do take out links do you have to worry about the drive teeth spacing?

    Both saws are Stihl one a 036 PRO and the other a 021.


    Once again, I think this post has gotten off topic. Let's help bpost with his question, shall we? I've given my opinion, that is to NOT remove links. Chains are cheap. What does everyone else say?


    I belive the majority have warned about NOT doing it. A few have supported it, and I imagine from Bruce's silence, he is gonna shorten the chains.

    It is his saw and his body parts. He is gonna do whatever he chooses to.
    I don't think it ever got off topic did it?[?][?]


    Yes and no..
    No, it is still a discussion about saws and maintenance. However, the discussion has wandered from the specific question of shortening a streched chain.

    Nothing around here EVER says 100% to the topic. [:D]
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