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If you are walking on a sidewalk and your child takes "two steps" into the street and gets killed by a pickup truck (because you're not watching him) .... exactly who's fault is it?
Would it be the City? The DOT?, The county?, The State? ........ No wait ... IT'S YOUR FAULT, period. You just can't put this on anyone besides the parent.
"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you"
Think we could get that shooter a job at the WH? I hear kids are allowed in that zoo fairly regularly.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
As a parent I know that you cannot devote 100% of your attention to a child 100% of the time....It's just not possible... even if you are distracted for what you think is a fraction of a second that time is usually much longer than you realize. I also have memories from a pretty young age (maybe not 4 years old but at least 5) and can tell you despite being watched closely there was still ample opportunity to "escape". Any one who says they have 100% focus on their kid is lying or in denial.....
I'm going to speculate here that as this situation developed the gathering crowd probably aggravated the animal. Everyone should have been cleared out immediately especially what I suspect was a screaming mother. I also believe gorillas are very territorial and will kill baby gorillas that are not their own offspring. Hence the behavior shown in the video.
Zoos have specific standards they are required by law to follow in regards to the separation of the animals and humans. They have to balance reasonable safety measures with the ability to view these animals. Guards are set up with the reasonable expectation that the average person is going to honor those guards or at least be deterred by them.
Several years ago in Indiana a kid ran under a barricade at the circus to pet the kitty. It ate his arm. Negligent mom sued and won so her two LD lads get new scooters every year.
1.6 million visitors to that zoo every year. Considering the percentage of morons in that population... mere statistics suggests a gorilla should be shot every few hours.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
The news just posted a diagram of the area.....it was a small 3 foot tall bar....not a fence....and a row of shrubs.....then a 12 foot deep trench. Whoever they were interviewing said they were going to investigate the zoo for not having proper safety measures.
It is,y understanding that the mother was standing next to the kid....just taking pictures of the gorilla when her child pushes foreword and fell into the pit.
If all of this is how it took place I think the zoo is TOTALLY to blame.
There is a thread circulating where another zookeeper describes how he was acting. When he was dragging the child around it's something they do to ward off other gorillas or show their strength. In the wild....they grab tree limbs and drag them aggressively to show how "bad" they are. So this guy was not calm....and it was not getting better the longer it went on.
quote:If all of this is how it took place I think the zoo is TOTALLY to blame.
If you are looking for a boy in the bubble kind of world. Kasey, zoos went to a minimally visible barriers in response to people not wanting to see animals behind bars. Would you prefer everything behind 8 foot tall three inch thick glass?
It just seems at some point that the parent should say "hey, we're going to look at dangerous animals, maybe I should keep hold of my kid".
Works for walking the streets of Chicago too.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
It just seems at some point that the parent should say "hey, we're going to look at dangerous animals, maybe I should keep hold of my kid".
Works for walking the streets of Chicago too.
Based on what I have heard as a description of the two barriers and bushes the kid climbed through/over it appears to me that the mom lost attention of her kid for more then a few seconds as she says. He obviously had quite a bit of unsupervised time to navigate those obstacles.
Walking down the street you expect there to be moving cars without any barrier, so you act like that danger is there.....at the zoo there should at LEAST be some kind of solid fence so a small child doesn't step off through some bushes and fall into a gorilla pit. Even if the bar in front of the bushes were a solid 3 foot tall fence this wouldn't have happened.
quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
Walking down the street you expect there to be moving cars without any barrier, so you act like that danger is there.....at the zoo there should at LEAST be some kind of solid fence so a small child doesn't step off through some bushes and fall into a gorilla pit. Even if the bar in front of the bushes were a solid 3 foot tall fence this wouldn't have happened.
Based on your logic, visitors who are gored by Bison in Yellowstone, Custer, and other National Parks are not to blame but rather the park service for having the Bison to entice you to approach them for pictures.
quote:Originally posted by swearengine
quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
Walking down the street you expect there to be moving cars without any barrier, so you act like that danger is there.....at the zoo there should at LEAST be some kind of solid fence so a small child doesn't step off through some bushes and fall into a gorilla pit. Even if the bar in front of the bushes were a solid 3 foot tall fence this wouldn't have happened.
Based on your logic, visitors who are gored by Bison in Yellowstone, Custer, and other National Parks are not to blame but rather the park service for having the Bison to entice you to approach them for pictures.
Do you seriously not know the difference between a zoo....with habitats and enclosures....and an actual wildlife sanctuary? I don't think I have enough spare time in my life to type that out...but if you need me to I'll try.
Zoos are designed to keep wild animals IN, visitors on the other hand are presumed to be smart enough not to try to join them in the enclosures. They are in enclosures and cages for a reason.
I personally would not step into a Gorilla enclosure nor a busy street for exactly the same reason ......... Either one could mean almost certain death.
Kids (as much as we like to think ours are smart) are ignorant of a lot of life's dangers and it's incumbent on the parent to protect, guide, inform and control their child until they are smart enough NOT to climb under/over a railing and then through the bushes and then manage to tumble into a confined space with the biggest primate on earth.
There may surely be multiple, legitimate contributing factors in this tragedy but all, yes all of them would have been mute if the mother would have been doing what any good parent should be doing, especially at a venue with tons of strangers (who could have easily abducted the very same kid cause Mommy is NOT watching him).
The saddest part of this is the poor kid and the Gorilla would both be happy and healthy at this very moment if not for the inattentiveness of one person.
So many people say "you can't possibly watch them 100% of the time" and while that is true, you had better be watching them when in any public and crowded location.
"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you"
quote:Originally posted by bullshot
Zoos are designed to keep wild animals IN, visitors on the other hand are presumed to be smart enough not to try to join them in the enclosures. They are in enclosures and cages for a reason.
I personally would not step into a Gorilla enclosure nor a busy street for exactly the same reason ......... Either one could mean almost certain death.
Kids (as much as we like to think ours are smart) are ignorant of a lot of life's dangers and it's incumbent on the parent to protect, guide, inform and control their child until they are smart enough NOT to climb under/over a railing and then through the bushes and then manage to tumble into a confined space with the biggest primate on earth.
There may surely be multiple, legitimate contributing factors in this tragedy but all, yes all of them would have been mute if the mother would have been doing what any good parent should be doing, especially at a venue with tons of strangers (who could have easily abducted the very same kid cause Mommy is NOT watching him).
The saddest part of this is the poor kid and the Gorilla would both be happy and healthy at this very moment if not for the inattentiveness of one person.
So many people say "you can't possibly watch them 100% of the time" and while that is true, you had better be watching them when in any public and crowded location.
Tragedy? The death of a gorilla is a bit saddening, but I hardly think it rises to the level of tragedy.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Yes, the killing of the Gorilla was a tragedy, there are only a little over 700 of them left in the wild (world wide) and once again I say that it was totally preventable.
If you only consider this "a bit saddening" then I'd have to say that you have a major disconnect between your personal little bubble and the world that you actually live in. Mr Myopic would better describe your view of life on earth.
"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you"
quote:Originally posted by 44pinshooter
Bet you a dollar to a doughnut, that all the people who are crying about the ape, are pro-choice.
OK to murder baby's than save a child from an ape.
What does one possibly have to do with the other. Cheap shot there sir.
"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you"
quote:Originally posted by bullshot
Yes, the killing of the Gorilla was a tragedy, there are only a little over 700 of them left in the wild (world wide) and once again I say that it was totally preventable.
If you only consider this "a bit saddening" then I'd have to say that you have a major disconnect between your personal little bubble and the world that you actually live in. Mr Myopic would better describe your view of life on earth.
It's an animal. Thus not a tragedy.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Simply solution.No children under 7 will not be allowed! Of Course entertaining how superior humans are over other hairy primates will effect the bottom profit line for The Zoos !
The ape is innocence it's the people in the government who controls the zoos is the problem! [:)][:D][8D]
Even when I travel and the wife sees a dead animal on the side of the road...skunk, squirrel, bird, possum, you name it,cand she'll be whining about it for the longest. The good thing is that she wears shades and don't see the half of them, and you can bet that I won't say a word bout it. I might even excitedly point skyward to draw her attention to all the pretty birds that are flying about...just to help the situation along! [:D]
We are all animals sir, the fact that you have such little respect for the rest of them is the real tragedy.
You may be. I on the other hand....
You know, one of the main distinctions between animals and humans is the ability to reason and to control their sexual urges.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by bullshot
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by bullshot
We are all animals sir, the fact that you have such little respect for the rest of them is the real tragedy.
You may be. I on the other hand....
You know, one of the main distinctions between animals and humans is the ability to reason and to control their sexual urges.
On this planet there are only plants, animals and minerals ... so which one do you identify with?
Your argumentum ad ignorantiam is noted. Maybe I gave you too much credit.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by He Dog
Zoos are far safer than amusement parks or water parks, and they run drills, are inspected to maintain accreditation, and still it is possible for people to circumvent safety barriers. We attempt to build exhibits where you do not have to look through fence to see the animals and to make the barriers as inconspicuous as possible. Even so, guys jump in to polar bear exhibits to commit suicide. I arrived just as the man who poked the spitting cobra glass with the brass head of his walking stick, was departing and the snake was crawling into the public space. Our gorillas were behind 3" thick laminated glass so you could safely get close.
When I was a kid it was accepted that there were dangers in the world and living carried some small risk. Now we seem to want iron clad bullet proof guarantees there will be no risk to anything in life. Is it any mystery that we live in a welfare society?
There's an interesting theory out there that being able to definitively pick and choose when we have kids (The Pill, abortion) makes them somehow more valuable in the eyes of the parent. I'm not saying Catholics of 50, 100 years ago who popped them out 8 at a time didn't love their kids, but being able to make that deliberate decision to have one or two, being emotionally invested not only in the kid but the decision, leads to the whole "precious beyond belief" syndrome that results in kids wearing helmets, Helicopter Moms (yes, that's a real term) and the "someone has to pay" response when little Timmy cracks his head open or takes a header off the side of the house.
Having a kid by happenstance causes the adult to accept a certain amount of fate, that some things are beyond their control. Deliberate planning to have the kid engenders an expectation things will go as planned, that we have absolute control. And when they don't, it's a tough thing to accept.
BTW, the only good thing about kids .... is makin' em. [;)]
quote:Originally posted by dfletcher
quote:Originally posted by He Dog
Zoos are far safer than amusement parks or water parks, and they run drills, are inspected to maintain accreditation, and still it is possible for people to circumvent safety barriers. We attempt to build exhibits where you do not have to look through fence to see the animals and to make the barriers as inconspicuous as possible. Even so, guys jump in to polar bear exhibits to commit suicide. I arrived just as the man who poked the spitting cobra glass with the brass head of his walking stick, was departing and the snake was crawling into the public space. Our gorillas were behind 3" thick laminated glass so you could safely get close.
When I was a kid it was accepted that there were dangers in the world and living carried some small risk. Now we seem to want iron clad bullet proof guarantees there will be no risk to anything in life. Is it any mystery that we live in a welfare society?
There's an interesting theory out there that being able to definitively pick and choose when we have kids (The Pill, abortion) makes them somehow more valuable in the eyes of the parent. I'm not saying Catholics of 50, 100 years ago who popped them out 8 at a time didn't love their kids, but being able to make that deliberate decision to have one or two, being emotionally invested not only in the kid but the decision, leads to the whole "precious beyond belief" syndrome that results in kids wearing helmets, Helicopter Moms (yes, that's a real term) and the "someone has to pay" response when little Timmy cracks his head open or takes a header off the side of the house.
Having a kid by happenstance causes the adult to accept a certain amount of fate, that some things are beyond their control. Deliberate planning to have the kid engenders an expectation things will go as planned, that we have absolute control. And when they don't, it's a tough thing to accept.
BTW, the only good thing about kids .... is makin' em. [;)]
Do you have kids? It would seem not as you appear to have no clue what you're talking about.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by swearengine
quote:Originally posted by SCOUT5
quote:Originally posted by swearengine
Fine the mother the cost of getting a replacement gorilla.
According to the various news reports, the child crossed 2-3 barricades before falling into the moat. That took effort and time.
I wonder if you have considered what the long term effects, of fining parents for none malicious child behavior, would be.
The old adage, kids will be kids, comes to mind. If there were more parents; people who discipline their child; rather than babysitters, you would have less miscreants.
When I was a child, 2 neighbor boys caused damage but they were not being malicious. It cost their parents a combined total of approximately $80,000.00 I guarantee you those adults became parents overnight and those 2 boys grew up to be respected adults.
Were they 4 years old? Also did they do the damage at a place that makes it's living off of children and the adults who bring them? If parents start getting sued every time a child does something, it will not be long before parents stop taking their children to zoos, fairs, amusement parks......etc.
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by bullshot
Yes, the killing of the Gorilla was a tragedy, there are only a little over 700 of them left in the wild (world wide) and once again I say that it was totally preventable.
If you only consider this "a bit saddening" then I'd have to say that you have a major disconnect between your personal little bubble and the world that you actually live in. Mr Myopic would better describe your view of life on earth.
It's an animal. Thus not a tragedy.
Agree.
A fairly smart fellow named Dennis Prager (I'd expect some here know or listen to him) has said that given the opportunity to save a helpless puppy or the most evil human the moral choice always is to save the human. Simply because they are human. And I tend to agree with him.
That the death of an animal is unfortunate, horrifying, offensive and so on doesn't change that. I certainly wish this didn't happen, but it did.
We have yet to decide if humans are above the animal world or part of it. If we put ourselves above it then being custodial and responsible for it's care, survival in some cases, is appropriate, I suppose. But if we are part of it, if we are just all animals, well then what we do is part of the natural order of things even if we use tools to do it. Or do it to an extreme. Monkeys use tools to acquire food, beavers build dams to control their environment. And if an animal has to kill another to survive or protect its own, even if that animal happens to be the last one on Earth, that's what it does.
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by bullshot
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by bullshot
We are all animals sir, the fact that you have such little respect for the rest of them is the real tragedy.
You may be. I on the other hand....
You know, one of the main distinctions between animals and humans is the ability to reason and to control their sexual urges.
On this planet there are only plants, animals and minerals ... so which one do you identify with?
Your argumentum ad ignorantiam is noted. Maybe I gave you too much credit.
"Argumentum ad Ignorantiam" sho am fancy speakin but what about my question would lead you to use it?
The Animal, mineral or plant question isn't unproven. Your use of Latin phrases is impressive (albeit incorrect) but your knowledge of biology is sorely lacking here. Humans are indeed animals, intellectually the highest form of animal but animal none the less.
Your statement that animals other than humans cannot reason is a textbook example of Argumentum ad Ignorantiam however.
Anyway, this has been fun but I'm bored with the topic and the banter so I'll just agree to disagree and leave it alone.
"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you"
Comments
Would it be the City? The DOT?, The county?, The State? ........ No wait ... IT'S YOUR FAULT, period. You just can't put this on anyone besides the parent.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
I'm going to speculate here that as this situation developed the gathering crowd probably aggravated the animal. Everyone should have been cleared out immediately especially what I suspect was a screaming mother. I also believe gorillas are very territorial and will kill baby gorillas that are not their own offspring. Hence the behavior shown in the video.
Zoos have specific standards they are required by law to follow in regards to the separation of the animals and humans. They have to balance reasonable safety measures with the ability to view these animals. Guards are set up with the reasonable expectation that the average person is going to honor those guards or at least be deterred by them.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
It is,y understanding that the mother was standing next to the kid....just taking pictures of the gorilla when her child pushes foreword and fell into the pit.
If all of this is how it took place I think the zoo is TOTALLY to blame.
There is a thread circulating where another zookeeper describes how he was acting. When he was dragging the child around it's something they do to ward off other gorillas or show their strength. In the wild....they grab tree limbs and drag them aggressively to show how "bad" they are. So this guy was not calm....and it was not getting better the longer it went on.
If you are looking for a boy in the bubble kind of world. Kasey, zoos went to a minimally visible barriers in response to people not wanting to see animals behind bars. Would you prefer everything behind 8 foot tall three inch thick glass?
Works for walking the streets of Chicago too.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
It just seems at some point that the parent should say "hey, we're going to look at dangerous animals, maybe I should keep hold of my kid".
Works for walking the streets of Chicago too.
Based on what I have heard as a description of the two barriers and bushes the kid climbed through/over it appears to me that the mom lost attention of her kid for more then a few seconds as she says. He obviously had quite a bit of unsupervised time to navigate those obstacles.
Walking down the street you expect there to be moving cars without any barrier, so you act like that danger is there.....at the zoo there should at LEAST be some kind of solid fence so a small child doesn't step off through some bushes and fall into a gorilla pit. Even if the bar in front of the bushes were a solid 3 foot tall fence this wouldn't have happened.
Based on your logic, visitors who are gored by Bison in Yellowstone, Custer, and other National Parks are not to blame but rather the park service for having the Bison to entice you to approach them for pictures.
quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
Walking down the street you expect there to be moving cars without any barrier, so you act like that danger is there.....at the zoo there should at LEAST be some kind of solid fence so a small child doesn't step off through some bushes and fall into a gorilla pit. Even if the bar in front of the bushes were a solid 3 foot tall fence this wouldn't have happened.
Based on your logic, visitors who are gored by Bison in Yellowstone, Custer, and other National Parks are not to blame but rather the park service for having the Bison to entice you to approach them for pictures.
Do you seriously not know the difference between a zoo....with habitats and enclosures....and an actual wildlife sanctuary? I don't think I have enough spare time in my life to type that out...but if you need me to I'll try.
As far as blaming the zoo, they put redundant barriers in place.
They exercised and executed due diligence.
If someone deliberalely defeats the safety barriers,
and drops their child into a pen with a wild animal,
I guess they must not value that child's life very highly.
I personally would not step into a Gorilla enclosure nor a busy street for exactly the same reason ......... Either one could mean almost certain death.
Kids (as much as we like to think ours are smart) are ignorant of a lot of life's dangers and it's incumbent on the parent to protect, guide, inform and control their child until they are smart enough NOT to climb under/over a railing and then through the bushes and then manage to tumble into a confined space with the biggest primate on earth.
There may surely be multiple, legitimate contributing factors in this tragedy but all, yes all of them would have been mute if the mother would have been doing what any good parent should be doing, especially at a venue with tons of strangers (who could have easily abducted the very same kid cause Mommy is NOT watching him).
The saddest part of this is the poor kid and the Gorilla would both be happy and healthy at this very moment if not for the inattentiveness of one person.
So many people say "you can't possibly watch them 100% of the time" and while that is true, you had better be watching them when in any public and crowded location.
Tiger last month, now a Gorilla. What's next?
A large wooden badger?
Zoos are designed to keep wild animals IN, visitors on the other hand are presumed to be smart enough not to try to join them in the enclosures. They are in enclosures and cages for a reason.
I personally would not step into a Gorilla enclosure nor a busy street for exactly the same reason ......... Either one could mean almost certain death.
Kids (as much as we like to think ours are smart) are ignorant of a lot of life's dangers and it's incumbent on the parent to protect, guide, inform and control their child until they are smart enough NOT to climb under/over a railing and then through the bushes and then manage to tumble into a confined space with the biggest primate on earth.
There may surely be multiple, legitimate contributing factors in this tragedy but all, yes all of them would have been mute if the mother would have been doing what any good parent should be doing, especially at a venue with tons of strangers (who could have easily abducted the very same kid cause Mommy is NOT watching him).
The saddest part of this is the poor kid and the Gorilla would both be happy and healthy at this very moment if not for the inattentiveness of one person.
So many people say "you can't possibly watch them 100% of the time" and while that is true, you had better be watching them when in any public and crowded location.
Tragedy? The death of a gorilla is a bit saddening, but I hardly think it rises to the level of tragedy.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
OK to murder baby's than save a child from an ape.
If you only consider this "a bit saddening" then I'd have to say that you have a major disconnect between your personal little bubble and the world that you actually live in. Mr Myopic would better describe your view of life on earth.
Bet you a dollar to a doughnut, that all the people who are crying about the ape, are pro-choice.
OK to murder baby's than save a child from an ape.
What does one possibly have to do with the other. Cheap shot there sir.
Yes, the killing of the Gorilla was a tragedy, there are only a little over 700 of them left in the wild (world wide) and once again I say that it was totally preventable.
If you only consider this "a bit saddening" then I'd have to say that you have a major disconnect between your personal little bubble and the world that you actually live in. Mr Myopic would better describe your view of life on earth.
It's an animal. Thus not a tragedy.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
The ape is innocence it's the people in the government who controls the zoos is the problem! [:)][:D][8D]
serf
We are all animals sir, the fact that you have such little respect for the rest of them is the real tragedy.
You may be. I on the other hand....
You know, one of the main distinctions between animals and humans is the ability to reason and to control their sexual urges.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by bullshot
We are all animals sir, the fact that you have such little respect for the rest of them is the real tragedy.
You may be. I on the other hand....
You know, one of the main distinctions between animals and humans is the ability to reason and to control their sexual urges.
On this planet there are only plants, animals and minerals ... so which one do you identify with?
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by bullshot
We are all animals sir, the fact that you have such little respect for the rest of them is the real tragedy.
You may be. I on the other hand....
You know, one of the main distinctions between animals and humans is the ability to reason and to control their sexual urges.
On this planet there are only plants, animals and minerals ... so which one do you identify with?
Your argumentum ad ignorantiam is noted. Maybe I gave you too much credit.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Zoos are far safer than amusement parks or water parks, and they run drills, are inspected to maintain accreditation, and still it is possible for people to circumvent safety barriers. We attempt to build exhibits where you do not have to look through fence to see the animals and to make the barriers as inconspicuous as possible. Even so, guys jump in to polar bear exhibits to commit suicide. I arrived just as the man who poked the spitting cobra glass with the brass head of his walking stick, was departing and the snake was crawling into the public space. Our gorillas were behind 3" thick laminated glass so you could safely get close.
When I was a kid it was accepted that there were dangers in the world and living carried some small risk. Now we seem to want iron clad bullet proof guarantees there will be no risk to anything in life. Is it any mystery that we live in a welfare society?
There's an interesting theory out there that being able to definitively pick and choose when we have kids (The Pill, abortion) makes them somehow more valuable in the eyes of the parent. I'm not saying Catholics of 50, 100 years ago who popped them out 8 at a time didn't love their kids, but being able to make that deliberate decision to have one or two, being emotionally invested not only in the kid but the decision, leads to the whole "precious beyond belief" syndrome that results in kids wearing helmets, Helicopter Moms (yes, that's a real term) and the "someone has to pay" response when little Timmy cracks his head open or takes a header off the side of the house.
Having a kid by happenstance causes the adult to accept a certain amount of fate, that some things are beyond their control. Deliberate planning to have the kid engenders an expectation things will go as planned, that we have absolute control. And when they don't, it's a tough thing to accept.
BTW, the only good thing about kids .... is makin' em. [;)]
quote:Originally posted by He Dog
Zoos are far safer than amusement parks or water parks, and they run drills, are inspected to maintain accreditation, and still it is possible for people to circumvent safety barriers. We attempt to build exhibits where you do not have to look through fence to see the animals and to make the barriers as inconspicuous as possible. Even so, guys jump in to polar bear exhibits to commit suicide. I arrived just as the man who poked the spitting cobra glass with the brass head of his walking stick, was departing and the snake was crawling into the public space. Our gorillas were behind 3" thick laminated glass so you could safely get close.
When I was a kid it was accepted that there were dangers in the world and living carried some small risk. Now we seem to want iron clad bullet proof guarantees there will be no risk to anything in life. Is it any mystery that we live in a welfare society?
There's an interesting theory out there that being able to definitively pick and choose when we have kids (The Pill, abortion) makes them somehow more valuable in the eyes of the parent. I'm not saying Catholics of 50, 100 years ago who popped them out 8 at a time didn't love their kids, but being able to make that deliberate decision to have one or two, being emotionally invested not only in the kid but the decision, leads to the whole "precious beyond belief" syndrome that results in kids wearing helmets, Helicopter Moms (yes, that's a real term) and the "someone has to pay" response when little Timmy cracks his head open or takes a header off the side of the house.
Having a kid by happenstance causes the adult to accept a certain amount of fate, that some things are beyond their control. Deliberate planning to have the kid engenders an expectation things will go as planned, that we have absolute control. And when they don't, it's a tough thing to accept.
BTW, the only good thing about kids .... is makin' em. [;)]
Do you have kids? It would seem not as you appear to have no clue what you're talking about.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by SCOUT5
quote:Originally posted by swearengine
Fine the mother the cost of getting a replacement gorilla.
According to the various news reports, the child crossed 2-3 barricades before falling into the moat. That took effort and time.
I wonder if you have considered what the long term effects, of fining parents for none malicious child behavior, would be.
The old adage, kids will be kids, comes to mind. If there were more parents; people who discipline their child; rather than babysitters, you would have less miscreants.
When I was a child, 2 neighbor boys caused damage but they were not being malicious. It cost their parents a combined total of approximately $80,000.00 I guarantee you those adults became parents overnight and those 2 boys grew up to be respected adults.
Were they 4 years old? Also did they do the damage at a place that makes it's living off of children and the adults who bring them? If parents start getting sued every time a child does something, it will not be long before parents stop taking their children to zoos, fairs, amusement parks......etc.
quote:Originally posted by bullshot
Yes, the killing of the Gorilla was a tragedy, there are only a little over 700 of them left in the wild (world wide) and once again I say that it was totally preventable.
If you only consider this "a bit saddening" then I'd have to say that you have a major disconnect between your personal little bubble and the world that you actually live in. Mr Myopic would better describe your view of life on earth.
It's an animal. Thus not a tragedy.
Agree.
A fairly smart fellow named Dennis Prager (I'd expect some here know or listen to him) has said that given the opportunity to save a helpless puppy or the most evil human the moral choice always is to save the human. Simply because they are human. And I tend to agree with him.
That the death of an animal is unfortunate, horrifying, offensive and so on doesn't change that. I certainly wish this didn't happen, but it did.
We have yet to decide if humans are above the animal world or part of it. If we put ourselves above it then being custodial and responsible for it's care, survival in some cases, is appropriate, I suppose. But if we are part of it, if we are just all animals, well then what we do is part of the natural order of things even if we use tools to do it. Or do it to an extreme. Monkeys use tools to acquire food, beavers build dams to control their environment. And if an animal has to kill another to survive or protect its own, even if that animal happens to be the last one on Earth, that's what it does.
quote:Originally posted by yoshmyster
Tiger last month, now a Gorilla. What's next?
A large wooden badger?
What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen Swallow?
quote:Originally posted by bullshot
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by bullshot
We are all animals sir, the fact that you have such little respect for the rest of them is the real tragedy.
You may be. I on the other hand....
You know, one of the main distinctions between animals and humans is the ability to reason and to control their sexual urges.
On this planet there are only plants, animals and minerals ... so which one do you identify with?
Your argumentum ad ignorantiam is noted. Maybe I gave you too much credit.
"Argumentum ad Ignorantiam" sho am fancy speakin but what about my question would lead you to use it?
The Animal, mineral or plant question isn't unproven. Your use of Latin phrases is impressive (albeit incorrect) but your knowledge of biology is sorely lacking here. Humans are indeed animals, intellectually the highest form of animal but animal none the less.
Your statement that animals other than humans cannot reason is a textbook example of Argumentum ad Ignorantiam however.
Anyway, this has been fun but I'm bored with the topic and the banter so I'll just agree to disagree and leave it alone.
I bet the mother was either texting or looking at FB when this all occurred.
You are probably correct.