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.30 Carbine vs. .38 SPL
codenamepaul
Member Posts: 2,931 ✭
It seems to me that a smarter move both ballistically and logistically that the M-1 Carbine would have been better served in .38 spl than .30 Carbine. Any takers?????
Comments
.30 Carbine, 110 grain projectile: 1900+ FPS, 967 ft-lb at muzzle.
38 Special, 110 grain projectile: 950 FPS, 220 ft-lb at muzzle.
The 38 +P is even under 300 ft-lbs.
The indoor range I use on occasion will not allow .30 Carbine because of its muzzle velocity and energy.
Brad Steele
Neal
Now if it was chambered in .357 or .44magnum, that would be something special if it came with 15 round mags. The only thing I never liked about the ruger 44 carbine was the fact you have to reload it every 4 shots.
The grease gun was the deemed replacement of the thompsons.
if it has a rim, it aint going in a box magazine. (unless it's 7.62x54R) that rules out any revolver cartridge. apparently back in the 40's they thought small caliber gopher cartridges should be used on gophers. bizarre, huh.
The Coonan in .357/38 special feeds extremely well, as does the Desert Eagle in .357. The DE is a little underpowered in .357, but keeping the gas port clean and the slide, bolt, and frame clean and well lubed makes it fairly reliable.
There is nothing that prevents a semi-auto box/stick magazine rifle in these calibers, and the stack does not have a practical limit as to the number of rounds in the mag that I can see (stacks like a .22LR stick mag). If someone were to come out with one, I'd be powerful interested.
Brad Steele
I thought the carbine was made to replace pistols as the main weapon of NCOs and non combat troops close to the action..
The grease gun was the deemed replacement of the thompsons.
That was the idea, it was to be issued in place of a M1 Garand or a M1911A1.
quote:Originally posted by quickmajik
I thought the carbine was made to replace pistols as the main weapon of NCOs and non combat troops close to the action..
The grease gun was the deemed replacement of the thompsons.
dunno, do they have some history on wikipedia?
dunno, I never looked, I got what I know from reading books on it.
Hang on, i'll ink the M1. I'll say right now Wiki Is wrong atleast half the time on finer details.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Designing_the_M1_carbine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Combat_use
I thought the carbine was made to replace pistols as the main weapon of NCOs and non combat troops close to the action..
The grease gun was the deemed replacement of the thompsons.
Not necessarily. As far as I am aware, most non infantry outfits used the carbine as opposed to the rifle. My dad was in an artillery battalion and they were issued carbines.
quote:SNOOO Posted
Forget those others....You just cannot compete with the .223 Remington cartridge.
That thing is a pea slinger, nothing more. There are dozens of better rounds.
If I want respect, I'll take a 45/70. Ain't nobody bad * enough to argue with a 45/70.
Goal by ordnance designers was to allow the artillery folks/Red Ball drivers more of a hit probability to an advancing adversary prior to said adversary getting into grenade-tossing range.
That was the premise of the M1 Carbine..and you needed a very hot round for that (compared to pistols). Best, Joe
Well I'm not to keen on the idea, though I'd probably buy an M1 carbine chambered in .38 if one was made and it turned out to be reliable.
Now if it was chambered in .357 or .44magnum, that would be something special if it came with 15 round mags. The only thing I never liked about the ruger 44 carbine was the fact you have to reload it every 4 shots.
I couldn't agree more. What I wouldn't give for a carbine in .44 Mag that used 15-20 round removable mags. That would be fine choice for SHTF use or general woods/wilderness roaming, IMHO.
I understand the reasoning behind its issue, so no need to discuss that. Funny that the same issue remains som 60+ years later.
I always considered the .30 carbine to be fairly anemic as a rifle round-but I do speak from a position of some inexperience with it as well.
The result was one of the least-appreciated miitary firearms ever developed. Light, fast, and easy to carry. Excellent action, and incredibly reliable. The cartridge was downplayed by many, because it was no .30-06. But it did its job perfectly. It was a defense gun, and no more.
The M-2 version, full auto, was in my opinion unnecessary since the crisp trigger can fire just about as quickly in semi-auto.
I'd like to get one of these, and was delighted to see Auto-Ordnance is making them again in WWII configuration. They look a little rough, especially the raw wood. In my opinion this is an ideal SHTF defensive semi-auto. Also an ideal urban warfare tool. At short distances, it hits hard.
just curious what the MV was on those guns. anyone ever crono one?
btw...those were great guns.
Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
Former NSSA All American
Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
MO, CT, VA.
remember the amt 30carbine pistols?
just curious what the MV was on those guns. anyone ever crono one?
btw...those were great guns.
I've never chrono'd mine, or the .30 Carbine Blackhawk for that matter. They do shoot a bit of a flame out the muzzle, though, so I suspect the MV is quite a bit less than the 1900 FPS out of an M1.
Brad Steele
Downrange hittability would be poorer with 38. It would be no better than a 9mm. If you uploaded it, how would you simplify anything? You'd just wind up needing new revolvers!!! 9mm Mauser Export would be a better choice anyway.
How's this? Issue a s&w model 10 stretch version chambered in 30 carbine! It's about as hot as a 357 but 3/4 less bore area, so 3/4 of the recoil.
remember the amt 30carbine pistols?
just curious what the MV was on those guns.Don't know about amt but Speer #9 says a 7-1/2" Blackhawk could do 1127 with a 110 & 296 (which is i think what service ammo was loaded with) and 1209 with Alcan AL7.
It was during the Korean War that many people found it was not very effective against the Chinese in their winter garb, large heavy overcoats that were stopping penetration of the Carbine round.
The 30 carbine GI ammo was loaded with noncorrosive primers from the outset. Some of the early ones may not have worked so well in cold weather. It was also loaded with a factory version of 296, which is supposedly not an easily igniting powder. In the winter it is possible the powder wasn't igniting properly. Maybe they should have issued winter ammo loaded with 4227.