.

Securing a door

rustyhrustyh Member Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭✭
edited October 2008 in General Discussion
Any suggestions on how to secure a hallway door from forced entry?

I want to lock it from the outside in a way that cannot be breached without serious effort. Hinges are on exposed side. Lock should not be overly evident from exposed side.

Thanks
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Comments

  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    without a steel frame and a deadbolt, if they want in, they'll get in.

    i have seen a wooden door in a wooden frame reagrdless of locks me and a partner cant pop with a halligan and a sledge in 30sec or less.
  • brickmaster1248brickmaster1248 Member Posts: 3,344
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by KEVD18
    without a steel frame and a deadbolt, if they want in, they'll get in.

    i have seen a wooden door in a wooden frame reagrdless of locks me and a partner cant pop with a halligan and a sledge in 30sec or less.



    You done it enough to know how long it takes you?[:D]
  • duckhunterduckhunter Member Posts: 7,606 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
  • brickmaster1248brickmaster1248 Member Posts: 3,344
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by duckhunter
    Cops.


    That explains it.
  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,929
    edited November -1
    my dream front door would consist of multiple layers of 1/2 in hardwood plywood laminated together with 1/4in deep grooves running in a grid pattern every 6 inches. every other layer of the 1/2 in plywood would have these groves and these grooves would have 1/4 in rebar layed into them. this pattern would continue untill the door is 3 1/2 inches thick. there would be pieces of 1/2 rebar approx 1' long. 2 vertically in the top and bottem and 3 horizontally on each side with somthing like a captains wheel from a ship in the middle of the door. turn the wheel and the rebar gets pushed into holes in the floor and walls. try breaking that down in 30 seconds.

    on a side note ive got way to much time on my hands. [:D]
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    between training and and actual forced entries, yeah ive done it a few times.

    it doesnt happen often, but sometime we have to force entry into a residence. little old lady fall down go boom. cant get up to open the door. hits the lifealert button on her necklace. how else do we get in...
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by joshmb1982
    my dream front door would consist of multiple layers of 1/2 in hardwood plywood laminated together with 1/4in deep grooves running in a grid pattern every 6 inches. every other layer of the 1/2 in plywood would have these groves and these grooves would have 1/4 in rebar layed into them. this pattern would continue untill the door is 3 1/2 inches thick. there would be pieces of 1/2 rebar approx 1' long. 2 vertically iin the top and bottem and 3 horizontally no each side with somthing like a captains wheel from a ship in the middle of the door. turn the wheel and the rebar gets pushed into holes in the floor and walls. try breaking that down in 30 seconds.

    on a side note ive got way to much time on my hands. [:D]


    that would be more difficult. not impossible mind you, but tough.
  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 14,446 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by joshmb1982
    my dream front door would consist of multiple layers of 1/2 in hardwood plywood laminated together with 1/4in deep grooves running in a grid pattern every 6 inches. every other layer of the 1/2 in plywood would have these groves and these grooves would have 1/4 in rebar layed into them. this pattern would continue untill the door is 3 1/2 inches thick. there would be pieces of 1/2 rebar approx 1' long. 2 vertically iin the top and bottem and 3 horizontally no each side with somthing like a captains wheel from a ship in the middle of the door. turn the wheel and the rebar gets pushed into holes in the floor and walls. try breaking that down in 30 seconds.

    on a side note ive got way to much time on my hands. [:D]


    Unless the jamb is steel, it would still only take less than 30 seconds. Either the door gives by the lockset, or the jamb gives around the strike.

    Allen set screws to lock the hinge pins from being removed. Long and strong screws in jamb and door at the hinges.
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,929
    edited November -1
    come on how could you get through that? assuming the walls and door were secure. couldnt cut it with a saw the rebar would stop it. the door would weigh probly 300lbs. would a man portable battering ram have any effect on that?
  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,929
    edited November -1
    my dream home is also a log cabin. so the walls on either side would be an 8x8 log as well as on top and bottem. would take at least a bit more then 30 seconds im sure.
  • LesWVaLesWVa Member Posts: 10,490 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The wildest door that I had ever saw was in a guys basement.

    It was made using 2x2x1/4 tubing ladder constructed frame. 1/4" steel panel inside and out. Full length hinge made from 1" steel pipe cut about every six inches (one welded to the door the other welded to the frame) with a full length 1" stainless steel rod for a pin.

    But the thing that really got me was the five dead bolts that he used. Each with a different key. One on top in the center, Three down the side and one at the bottom.

    Any way that you looked at it. There were no way to pry nor bust it open without some serious work.

    But with over $350,000 worth of fine firearms will make a guy do stuff like that.
  • fishkiller41fishkiller41 Member Posts: 50,608
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by joshmb1982
    come on how could you get through that? assuming the walls and door were secure. couldnt cut it with a saw the rebar would stop it. the door would weigh probly 300lbs. would a man portable battering ram have any effect on that?


    U just move over 6' and go thru the window!![;)]
    I have never figgered-out why people spend thousands on reinforced entreys,when their is a window(1/8" of glass)6' away.
  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,929
    edited November -1
    sweet
    figure at least all that would give you the time youd need to get to one of your firearms.
  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,929
    edited November -1
    windows are made of 1" lexon
    plus windows are really hard for the bad guy to run out of when he sees the shotgun in your hands.
  • fishkiller41fishkiller41 Member Posts: 50,608
    edited November -1
    That's the ticket, have real protection at arms reach.
  • fishkiller41fishkiller41 Member Posts: 50,608
    edited November -1
    1" Lexan is still softer than that door U discribed.OH,,, you're talkin "home invasion".... I was thinking office, or shop. If their are people in the building they should be armed, and thats better than any alarm or door.
  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,929
    edited November -1
    not by much. that stuffs damn near bullet proof. some of the equipment ive worked around had lexon windshields. seen them take a hell of a blow. more then any man could muster. and not shatter. cracket all to hell but still intact. and that was on a big 3x4 window. a house your talking what 2x4? mabye?
  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,929
    edited November -1
    just think. if id be willing to go through the trouble of making a door like that. do you think my house wuold be that easy to break into. already got it all planned out. now i just need to win the lotto.[:D]
  • fishkiller41fishkiller41 Member Posts: 50,608
    edited November -1
    Right? I guess what it comes down to, is having it tough enough to give you time. Time to wake-up and be ready for whatever happens.
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Alpine
    quote:Originally posted by joshmb1982
    my dream front door would consist of multiple layers of 1/2 in hardwood plywood laminated together with 1/4in deep grooves running in a grid pattern every 6 inches. every other layer of the 1/2 in plywood would have these groves and these grooves would have 1/4 in rebar layed into them. this pattern would continue untill the door is 3 1/2 inches thick. there would be pieces of 1/2 rebar approx 1' long. 2 vertically iin the top and bottem and 3 horizontally no each side with somthing like a captains wheel from a ship in the middle of the door. turn the wheel and the rebar gets pushed into holes in the floor and walls. try breaking that down in 30 seconds.

    on a side note ive got way to much time on my hands. [:D]


    Unless the jamb is steel, it would still only take less than 30 seconds. Either the door gives by the lockset, or the jamb gives around the strike.

    Allen set screws to lock the hinge pins from being removed. Long and strong screws in jamb and door at the hinges.


    the rebar poking out all sides would make it more difficult. but to be effective, youd have to make the rebar extend at least three inches into the door jamb. otherwise, i can just put a ram in, force the jamb out past the rebar, crib it open and repeat the tall way.

    the bottom line is that of someone wants in, they are going to get in. the key is to make the taget so difficult to get into the the average meathead with a screwdriver and a boot gets nowhere and a real criminal spends so much time and makes so much noise doing it that they get pinched
  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,929
    edited November -1
    pretty much yes. or give yo time to fall back to the underground bunker in the back yard through the secret passage in the basement.
  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,929
    edited November -1
    i figured the rebar being 1' in legnth to give 6 inches staying in the door and 6 inches sticking into the floor/walls.
  • 11BravoCrunchie11BravoCrunchie Member Posts: 33,424
    edited November -1
    Very few doors can stop this:

    143837682_2981e48dfc.jpg
  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,929
    edited November -1
    the ones at NORAD can.
  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,402
    edited November -1
    The hinges are the weakest point, just remove the pins & open the door.
    You would need to remove one screw from each side of each hinge & replace it with a metal plug of some type that would prevent the hinge from being pulled open. (A large nail with the head ground off would work.)
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    duh! i didnt even notice the "hinges are on the exposed side"

    its all over right there. dont even bother with the extra locks. just leave the door open...
  • jwb267jwb267 Member Posts: 19,523 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by joshmb1982
    come on how could you get through that? assuming the walls and door were secure. couldnt cut it with a saw the rebar would stop it. the door would weigh probly 300lbs. would a man portable battering ram have any effect on that?

    have you ever seen a diamond tip demolition blabe ? depending on the size of the saw, they can cut through 5" and cut anything
  • Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,815
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by joshmb1982
    my dream home is also a log cabin. so the walls on either side would be an 8x8 log as well as on top and bottem. would take at least a bit more then 30 seconds im sure.


    Ever see what a chainsaw will do to a log cabin? Someone will just cut a "new door". Seen it done before.
    IOW, if someone wants in bad enough, they are comming in.
  • rustyhrustyh Member Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    the bottom line is that of someone wants in, they are going to get in. the key is to make the taget so difficult to get into the the average meathead with a screwdriver and a boot gets nowhere and a real criminal spends so much time and makes so much noise doing it that they get pinched


    This is the general idea.

    I think I can reduce the hinge weakness by making something that would keep the door from being pulled out or forced back.

    Assume that there is not an unlimited supply of tools at hand. I am trying to reinforce it so that an above average bash grab and run burgler will not breach it. I cannot stop someone with unlimited time and tools. Assume police response time to an alarm be 20 min. (Be nice I am doubling the 10 min average for the heck of it.)
  • dongizmodongizmo Member Posts: 14,477
    edited November -1
    Hinge side, run in 6" lag screws into the jamb, leave 3/4"-1" under the head exposed, cut off the head, partially close the door on to the cut-off lag screws, marking the door, drill corresponding holes in the door to act as sockets for the cut-off lags.
    Use a interlocking pin type dead bolt lock, the kind that mounts on the inside with a flush cylinder on the outside.
    http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/u181156
    Add a 16 ga skin, and you have a pretty secure door...
    Don
    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools.
  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,402
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
    Hinge side, run in 6" lag screws into the jamb, leave 3/4"-1" under the head exposed, cut off the head, partially close the door on to the cut-off lag screws, marking the door, drill corresponding holes in the door to act as sockets for the cut-off lags.


    Or, remove opposing screws & drive in large nail or screw leaving exposed part & cut off head.
  • CS8161CS8161 Member Posts: 15,418 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by fishkiller41
    quote:Originally posted by joshmb1982
    come on how could you get through that? assuming the walls and door were secure. couldnt cut it with a saw the rebar would stop it. the door would weigh probly 300lbs. would a man portable battering ram have any effect on that?


    U just move over 6' and go thru the window!![;)]
    I have never figgered-out why people spend thousands on reinforced entreys,when their is a window(1/8" of glass)6' away.


    BINGO! SO TRUE!
  • TxsTxs Member Posts: 18,801
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by joshmb1982
    windows are made of 1" lexonSeen burglars melt a hole through these using a handheld propane blow torch, then run a hook inside and yank the entire panel and framework out with a chain and vehicle.

    Not pretty, but very effective.
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 21,746 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    All my external doors consist of 8 panels of reactive armor on the outside with a 1/4" T-1 (Type A) plate core.

    They have been tastefully covered with a 1/16" white oak veneer with a dark walnut stain outside, and painted a semi-gloss eggshell white inside.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • rustyhrustyh Member Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
    All my external doors consist of 8 panels of reactive armor on the outside with a 1/4" T-1 (Type A) plate core.

    They have been tastefully covered with a 1/16" white oak veneer with a dark walnut stain outside, and painted a semi-gloss eggshell white inside.


    Do you hire out?
  • mike55mike55 Member Posts: 881 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Take a SOLID wood door and put long strong screws it the hinges and drill a hole in the floor on the handle side of the door. Make sure to put it on the side where the door opens too. Take a peice of steel rod(rebar or whatever) and stick it in the hole so that a good 6 inches is still above the door. No one will kick that in with ease.

    Mike
  • j3081j3081 Member Posts: 332 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    hi,,,since time is a factor or not,the strongest door would be one that opened to the outside with pins welded,,,there is not much you can do but stand guard,,,if someone wants in,they are going to get in,,,that is fact,,,if you are home,protect yourself,,,if your away,have a strong safe to store all guns,jewerly,money,and the like and that is not guaranteed,,,i seen a nice door the other day at a PNC bank,if they could reverse the lock to the inside of the door and install it,i still wouldn't be safe from intruders,,,a house is a home,,,DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO,,,thanks
  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,929
    edited November -1
    yes i use a demo saaw with a diamond tipped blade. they are made for cutting concrete. they will cut steel ok but will not cut wood. youd get through the door quicker by letteing a colony of termits loos then with a cutoff saw with a diamond blade.
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 21,746 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by rustyh
    quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
    All my external doors consist of 8 panels of reactive armor on the outside with a 1/4" T-1 (Type A) plate core.

    They have been tastefully covered with a 1/16" white oak veneer with a dark walnut stain outside, and painted a semi-gloss eggshell white inside.


    Do you hire out?

    Not for doors.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,929
    edited November -1
    sounds like youve already built my dream home.
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