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Wrestling with God...
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Member Posts: 168,427 ✭
Here's another lesson that I've seen in my life as well...and I continue to be a Jacob in far too many areas of my life.
Wrestling With God
TGIF Today God Is First Volume 1 by Os Hillman
Saturday, May 23 2009
"So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak." - Genesis 32:24
All that Jacob had lived for was coming down to one event - his reunion with Esau. More than 20 years had passed since Jacob had manipulated his father's blessing away from his brother Esau. During these years God had been changing Jacob from a controller and manipulator to a man who was learning to trust God. He was now ready to meet Esau. However, he was fearful that Esau might take revenge on him and his family for his past sin, so he sent a gift ahead, while he retreated and sought mercy from God.
As an angel appeared to Jacob, he realized the only hope he had was in God. Only if God blessed him would he survive this ordeal. In the past, Jacob would have sought to solve his problem his way. Now, he wanted only God's way. He wanted Him so badly that he wouldn't let go of the angel. He was striving with God, but it was the right kind of striving. Jacob was striving to have all God's blessing on his life. He was seeking God with all that he had. "When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob's hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man" (Gen. 32:25). The only way to overcome the strong will of this man was to physically immobilize him. The angel touched the socket of Jacob's hip. It was painful; it broke him. This was the final stage of removing the old nature from Jacob. It was the place of complete brokenness and surrender. No longer would Jacob walk in his own strength. He would now have to lean on a cane, symbolic of his leaning on God alone.
It was the final act from God in Jacob's life that was celebrated with a new name - Israel. No longer would he strive with God or man. The process was now complete. God could now bless this man abundantly. He gave him favor with Esau and restored their broken relationship.
What does God have to do in our lives to remove the controlling and manipulative nature that so often is part of a workplace believer's life? Perhaps it will require a time of immobilizing, loss of a job, loss of income, loss of health, loss of a close relationship. These are His methods of preparation. Your new nature will not be complete until you've stopped striving with God through your own self-efforts. If God is taking you through this process, be encouraged; it is because of the inheritance He has prepared for you. However, the inheritance can only be received when God brings us to total dependence on Him.
Wrestling With God
TGIF Today God Is First Volume 1 by Os Hillman
Saturday, May 23 2009
"So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak." - Genesis 32:24
All that Jacob had lived for was coming down to one event - his reunion with Esau. More than 20 years had passed since Jacob had manipulated his father's blessing away from his brother Esau. During these years God had been changing Jacob from a controller and manipulator to a man who was learning to trust God. He was now ready to meet Esau. However, he was fearful that Esau might take revenge on him and his family for his past sin, so he sent a gift ahead, while he retreated and sought mercy from God.
As an angel appeared to Jacob, he realized the only hope he had was in God. Only if God blessed him would he survive this ordeal. In the past, Jacob would have sought to solve his problem his way. Now, he wanted only God's way. He wanted Him so badly that he wouldn't let go of the angel. He was striving with God, but it was the right kind of striving. Jacob was striving to have all God's blessing on his life. He was seeking God with all that he had. "When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob's hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man" (Gen. 32:25). The only way to overcome the strong will of this man was to physically immobilize him. The angel touched the socket of Jacob's hip. It was painful; it broke him. This was the final stage of removing the old nature from Jacob. It was the place of complete brokenness and surrender. No longer would Jacob walk in his own strength. He would now have to lean on a cane, symbolic of his leaning on God alone.
It was the final act from God in Jacob's life that was celebrated with a new name - Israel. No longer would he strive with God or man. The process was now complete. God could now bless this man abundantly. He gave him favor with Esau and restored their broken relationship.
What does God have to do in our lives to remove the controlling and manipulative nature that so often is part of a workplace believer's life? Perhaps it will require a time of immobilizing, loss of a job, loss of income, loss of health, loss of a close relationship. These are His methods of preparation. Your new nature will not be complete until you've stopped striving with God through your own self-efforts. If God is taking you through this process, be encouraged; it is because of the inheritance He has prepared for you. However, the inheritance can only be received when God brings us to total dependence on Him.
Comments
I take it as you are saying God is testing us? is that it?
It's a sincere question.
Eric, I am not insulting you or your religion in any way, but what are you trying to say?
I take it as you are saying God is testing us? is that it?
It's a sincere question.
I would imagine that many folks will see and take witht them different things from this short article...as we are all in a different place in life. One thing I took from the article was that God will do what is necessary to conform us to His likeness...and to get us to a place where He can use us. Most of the time we are, our own biggest obstacle. I have learned that nothing good that I am or have is of me. It is a gift from the Lord. I have learned that I do not have all the answers...and I cannot fix or solve all my problems...but I have a God that can. This is a little bit of what I took out of the article.
Please try to remember...these articles speak to Believers as our eyes are open to things that un-believers may not see or understand. I hope you are able to glean something from it for yourself.[:)]
Only "Believers" understand anything, the rest of the world is stupid..[xx(][xx(]
How is this? There are many educated and learned folks who are not saved. There are many worldly folks who have wisdom...but it is impossible for an un-Believer to understand the nature and things of God...including His Word...one must first have the scales removed from his eyes (and this, of course, is Salvation).
Wrestling With God
Does God has a "Finishing move" or entrance music? Would the "Stone Cold Stunner" be effective on Yahweh?
Hmmm.....something to ponder this weekend
"Believers" think they know about god when in reality they are guessing like the rest of the world..
Maybe, Probably, Who knows....... But I would rather someone who believes in something had my back than someone who attacks them for their beliefs. JMHO
quote:Originally posted by cactuspete1
"Believers" think they know about god when in reality they are guessing like the rest of the world..
Maybe, Probably, Who knows....... But I would rather someone who believes in something had my back than someone who attacks them for their beliefs. JMHO
I don't believe, but I learned civility goes a long way.
Plus, if I have a question, I know ECC (or others) will answer, since he knows I'm not going to blast him for his faith.
quote:Originally posted by burdz19
quote:Originally posted by cactuspete1
"Believers" think they know about god when in reality they are guessing like the rest of the world..
Maybe, Probably, Who knows....... But I would rather someone who believes in something had my back than someone who attacks them for their beliefs. JMHO
I don't believe, but I learned civility goes a long way.
Plus, if I have a question, I know ECC (or others) will answer, since he knows I'm not going to blast him for his faith.
Yes sir...
quote:Originally posted by burdz19
quote:Originally posted by cactuspete1
"Believers" think they know about god when in reality they are guessing like the rest of the world..
Maybe, Probably, Who knows....... But I would rather someone who believes in something had my back than someone who attacks them for their beliefs. JMHO
I don't believe, but I learned civility goes a long way.
Plus, if I have a question, I know ECC (or others) will answer, since he knows I'm not going to blast him for his faith.
My reply was not aimed at you in anyway PBJ, your question was sincere and I had no problem with it [:)]
No one has blasted anyone about their FAITH.. Opinion is that the Believers have all the answers when they have none to prove...The only answer they have is FAITH.. nothing more.. Believe what you want, but dont think you are any better than anyone else and think that you understand God when in reality you dont..
Oh, come on...there is/was LOTS of bickering on GB over the years about faith/God/religion.
I don't post here becuase of God or religion. I post becuase I'm a gun nut, and most here share the same beleifs on guns that I do.
No one has blasted anyone about their FAITH.. Opinion is that the Believers have all the answers when they have none to prove...The only answer they have is FAITH.. nothing more.. Believe what you want, but dont think you are any better than anyone else and think that you understand God when in reality you dont..
Believers do NOT think they are better than anyone else...we only know that we are forgiven.
...and it's a simple fact that we do understand God in ways that a non-Believer cannot...that is just common sense...and the Word is clear about it. This is not an IMO post...I am basing my statements purely on Scripture itself. If someone chooses to disagree with it, that's fine.[:)]
Then lets keep it about guns and keep the religion off here and in the home or the church where it belongs. The religious * when the opposing side states their opinion , "Dont agree with me and you are Prosecuting me" BS.. If you cant debate your position and give some answers then its best not to imply that you know what it is all about. Again believe what you want , but dont demonize those that dont have the same superstitious beliefs you have. You are no better or no worse than they are. In many cases the Hypocrites are much worse.
Please take a moment and point out ONE example of anything you have stated transpired in this thread....I'm waiting...
I have not seen one "religious" person bitching...
I have not seen one "religious" person comment about "Prosecuting" (I think you may have meant persecuting)...
I have not seen you pose any questions to be answered...
I have not seen any Believer demonize anyone else...or claim that they were any better than anyone else...
...so you were saying.?.? You seem to be somewhat bitter about this...and no one else is putting off the same vibes.
I hear he uses a lot of sleeper holds in church.
This sounds like a Don King Production! [:o)]
Wrestling with God...
I hear he uses a lot of sleeper holds in church.
This sounds like a Don King Production! [:o)]
There have been times when I was almost a victim of such tactics![:D]
If you religious people think another point of view is persecution then so be it, I know, "You are right and the rest of the world is wrong"
And is it not strange the only people that say they are being attacked are the religious ones, when someone voices their opinion contrary to what they believe?
As one other fellow in here put it. You claim something , be able to proove it. Other wise everyone can have their opinion but it must agree with yours or else?
FOOTNOTE: when it comes to wrestling, my God can whip your god.[;)][}:)][}:)]
...and it's a simple fact that we do understand God in ways that a non-Believer cannot
Eric,,
,I will have to disagree with that,If all us non-believers "in my case of the bible" had never been a believer it could be true ,but several,myself included ,was at one time a very big believer but as I grew older and had more information at my fingertips faith was just not a good enough answer anymore,Understanding God has nothing to do with whats in a modern bible IMHO it has to do with whats in your heart and the morals you live by.,you do not know you are forgiven or saved but you have faith you are,but then again every muslim in the world thinks you are condemed and they are the only ones saved.Just today I was watching a several hour long documentury on cults,its amazing how many cult leaders came from main stream religion,this show followed several cults and 60% of their leaders at one time had been 7th day adventist ministers,,Imho all orginized religion is just one step away from a cult,If I need to talk to my God I can walk into the woods sit at the base of a pretty tree and have a nice long conservation
If you want to post religious topics, fine. If you want to argue against religious topics, fine. If you don't want to see religious topics on here, then quit reading them and saying you don't want to see religious topics on here.
With freedom of speech comes hearing things you do not agree with. Just as with the freedom to own and carry guns comes the risk of having people lose it and go on a shooting spree. But I would rather have to put up with someone telling me my beliefs are wrong than for the government to tell me what I can and cannot say. Same goes for carrying a gun. You ought to appreciate what you have because one day it may be taken away.
As for the original topic, I've wrestled much over the years. Always liked those verses.
It was I that was accused of attacking your Faith, when in fact I did not. The persons that alluded to it are the ones that I was addressing. It is always the same thing, someone disagrees with a religious perspective and "Wham" they are persecuting the person spewing the religious mantra. As I stated, believe what you want, keep it personal between you and your God, Keep it at home and in your church and you get no gripe from the non believers. Make it public then we have the same right to express our opinion on it.
If you religious people think another point of view is persecution then so be it, I know, "You are right and the rest of the world is wrong"
And is it not strange the only people that say they are being attacked are the religious ones, when someone voices their opinion contrary to what they believe?
As one other fellow in here put it. You claim something , be able to proove it. Other wise everyone can have their opinion but it must agree with yours or else?
FOOTNOTE: when it comes to wrestling, my God can whip your god.[;)][}:)][}:)]
I think you've done an excellent job at proving my point for me...and you've yet to answer, even one of the questions I posed...or the accusations you made.
quote:Maybe, Probably, Who knows....... But I would rather someone who believes in something had my back than someone who attacks them for their beliefs. JMHO
Seems the poster of this is a supporter and is alluding to someone attacking. I bet he is a believer.[:0]
End of subject. You couldnt possibly answer any question I have so I dont pose any. Same story as usual, we are wrong and you are right.
Keep it at home if you dont want discussion and opinions that differ from yours.
I have yet seen an Atheist in this forum. (not to say I am one) start an anti religious post. It seems you religious people have to cram your religious dogma on others.
Only "Believers" understand anything, the rest of the world is stupid..[xx(][xx(]
Anyone that would post a statement like that, on a public forum, has the IQ of a dust particle.You damned fool.
This is the only answer you need.
quote:Maybe, Probably, Who knows....... But I would rather someone who believes in something had my back than someone who attacks them for their beliefs. JMHO
Seems the poster of this is a supporter and is alluding to someone attacking. I bet he is a believer.[:0]
End of subject. You couldnt possibly answer any question I have so I dont pose any. Same story as usual, we are wrong and you are right.
Keep it at home if you dont want discussion and opinions that differ from yours.
I have yet seen an Atheist in this forum. (not to say I am one) start an anti religious post. It seems you religious people have to cram your religious dogma on others.
Actually, I'm all for some civil discussion and debate...but I have yet to see any...you keep alluding to discussion...is there something you'd like to actually discuss?.?.?...or do you just want to keep up the avoidance thing???
This is the only answer you need.
quote:Maybe, Probably, Who knows....... But I would rather someone who believes in something had my back than someone who attacks them for their beliefs. JMHO
Seems the poster of this is a supporter and is alluding to someone attacking. I bet he is a believer.[:0]
End of subject. You couldnt possibly answer any question I have so I dont pose any. Same story as usual, we are wrong and you are right.
Keep it at home if you dont want discussion and opinions that differ from yours.
I have yet seen an Atheist in this forum. (not to say I am one) start an anti religious post. It seems you religious people have to cram your religious dogma on others.
This poster was just pointing out that I don't have the answers, my religion had nothing to do with the post, re-read it slow, very slow it might take you a couple of times. I wasn't defending ECC's post but rather talking down to you for feeling the need to spout off and letting you know I'd rather be on watch with him than you.
b
This is the only answer you need.
quote:Maybe, Probably, Who knows....... But I would rather someone who believes in something had my back than someone who attacks them for their beliefs. JMHO
Seems the poster of this is a supporter and is alluding to someone attacking. I bet he is a believer.[:0]
End of subject. You couldnt possibly answer any question I have so I dont pose any. Same story as usual, we are wrong and you are right.
Keep it at home if you dont want discussion and opinions that differ from yours.
I have yet seen an Atheist in this forum. (not to say I am one) start an anti religious post. It seems you religious people have to cram your religious dogma on others.
I've seen three do it quite often at times. And I only get on here occasionally.
This is the only answer you need.
quote:Maybe, Probably, Who knows....... But I would rather someone who believes in something had my back than someone who attacks them for their beliefs. JMHO
Seems the poster of this is a supporter and is alluding to someone attacking. I bet he is a believer.[:0]
End of subject. You couldnt possibly answer any question I have so I dont pose any. Same story as usual, we are wrong and you are right.
Keep it at home if you dont want discussion and opinions that differ from yours.
I have yet seen an Atheist in this forum. (not to say I am one) start an anti religious post. It seems you religious people have to cram your religious dogma on others.
so you never ventured over to Politics, eh?
I took it to mean that God is in everything we do. When he does enter he may or may not ( the choice is his) have Stone Colds intro music playing but he is whoppin * and taking names. I appreciate your stories. especially the one a few weeks ago about how working harder and more really does not produce any more. I met a successful business man a week later who in conversation asked me what I had been doing and when I told him working all the time he said " Son no man ever got rich from working they only kept their bills paid.
Sounds like a wise man...
Sorry Eric, I'll work on listening more and talking less. [B)]
Now, why would you go and do that!?!? I value everyone's input. Thanks for participating in this discussion![:)]
quote:Originally posted by burdz19
Sorry Eric, I'll work on listening more and talking less. [B)]
Now, why would you go and do that!?!? I value everyone's input. Thanks for participating in this discussion![:)]
Nah, next time I have a question about a religious post ECC puts out I'll e-mail him and avoid the hub-bub
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by burdz19
Sorry Eric, I'll work on listening more and talking less. [B)]
Now, why would you go and do that!?!? I value everyone's input. Thanks for participating in this discussion![:)]
Nah, next time I have a question about a religious post ECC puts out I'll e-mail him and avoid the hub-bub
Again PBJ your question was sincere, just feel like me jumping in got Eric jumped on harder and that wasn't my intention. I enjoy his posts, don't always agree, but it pizzes me off when guys jump on his posts- the same ones that preach 2A rights and carry dollars in their pockets with the words "In God We Trust" are not the guys I want with me on watch. That was what I was trying to say, but it got Eric jumped on harder, that is why I was [B)], nothing to do with your post.
brian
Then lets keep it about guns and keep the religion off here and in the home or the church where it belongs. The religious * when the opposing side states their opinion , "Dont agree with me and you are Prosecuting me" BS.. If you cant debate your position and give some answers then its best not to imply that you know what it is all about. Again believe what you want , but dont demonize those that dont have the same superstitious beliefs you have. You are no better or no worse than they are. In many cases the Hypocrites are much worse.
Being a Christian is part of who I am. If you are of the opinion that I can only be who I am in my home or Church you are sadly mistaken. I'm a Christian twenty-four hours a day, every day, all year long wherever I happen to be. If you don't like that, that's your problem. As long as I have breath and a gun it ain't going to change, and it won't change if I lose the gun. I have no intention of being an "undercover" Christian.
I see you are one of those fine folks who like to throw the word "hypocrite" around. First you need to learn what hypocrite means, then learn that Christians don't have the market cornered.
quote:Originally posted by cactuspete1
Then lets keep it about guns and keep the religion off here and in the home or the church where it belongs. The religious * when the opposing side states their opinion , "Dont agree with me and you are Prosecuting me" BS.. If you cant debate your position and give some answers then its best not to imply that you know what it is all about. Again believe what you want , but dont demonize those that dont have the same superstitious beliefs you have. You are no better or no worse than they are. In many cases the Hypocrites are much worse.
Being a Christian is part of who I am. If you are of the opinion that I can only be who I am in my home or Church you are sadly mistaken. I'm a Christian twenty-four hours a day, every day, all year long wherever I happen to be. If you don't like that, that's your problem. As long as I have breath and a gun it ain't going to change, and it won't change if I lose the gun. I have no intention of being an "undercover" Christian.
I see you are one of those fine folks who like to throw the word "hypocrite" around. First you need to learn what hypocrite means, then learn that Christians don't have the market cornered.
Well James maybe you will answer a question Eric won't. Do you give credit to your god for your failures as well as your successes in life? It's a simple question really. Does the infailable god cause your flat tires, house fires, and accidents as well as putting the food on your table, finding change in a soda machine, and getting a good parking spot at the store?
I only desire to wrestle with attractive women with big guns.
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by cactuspete1
Then lets keep it about guns and keep the religion off here and in the home or the church where it belongs. The religious * when the opposing side states their opinion , "Dont agree with me and you are Prosecuting me" BS.. If you cant debate your position and give some answers then its best not to imply that you know what it is all about. Again believe what you want , but dont demonize those that dont have the same superstitious beliefs you have. You are no better or no worse than they are. In many cases the Hypocrites are much worse.
Being a Christian is part of who I am. If you are of the opinion that I can only be who I am in my home or Church you are sadly mistaken. I'm a Christian twenty-four hours a day, every day, all year long wherever I happen to be. If you don't like that, that's your problem. As long as I have breath and a gun it ain't going to change, and it won't change if I lose the gun. I have no intention of being an "undercover" Christian.
I see you are one of those fine folks who like to throw the word "hypocrite" around. First you need to learn what hypocrite means, then learn that Christians don't have the market cornered.
Well James maybe you will answer a question Eric won't. Do you give credit to your god for your failures as well as your successes in life? It's a simple question really. Does the infailable god cause your flat tires, house fires, and accidents as well as putting the food on your table, finding change in a soda machine, and getting a good parking spot at the store?
I think the best way to answer that is to say that God watches over us at all times. All of the "bad" things that can happen that you listed didn't mention any loss of life, limb, or eyesight. So, yes, God is there, even for the "bad" stuff that we live through. God could care less about our flat tires, and about house fires, as long as his children are safe.
We, all human beings of any color or creed, are God's children. He sends our spirits to the Earth to grow, learn, and mature, and when He feels it is our time, He brings us home.
The planet we live on is not our home. It is a world He built for us to live on until we have achieved what He set us out to do. Sometimes, however, we fail to achieve the goal that God sent us to do.
He gave us free will so that we can achieve His goal for us in our own way. But sometimes that free will is what causes us to fail.
Yes, God is with us every day, through both the good and the bad. He protects us, but sometimes calls us home before we feel it is our time. All He asks of us is that we believe in Him, and believe in the task He gave us to do, and give it our all to accomplish what He sent us here to do, so that we may return to Him at the end of our physical lives. God shares in our victories as well as our defeats. He feels our joy, and our grief. He is ALWAYS there for us.
I think the best way to answer that is to say that God watches over us at all times. All of the "bad" things that can happen that you listed didn't mention any loss of life, limb, or eyesight. So, yes, God is there, even for the "bad" stuff that we live through. God could care less about our flat tires, and about house fires, as long as his children are safe.
We, all human beings of any color or creed, are God's children. He sends our spirits to the Earth to grow, learn, and mature, and when He feels it is our time, He brings us home.
The planet we live on is not our home. It is a world He built for us to live on until we have achieved what He set us out to do. Sometimes, however, we fail to achieve the goal that God sent us to do.
He gave us free will so that we can achieve His goal for us in our own way. But sometimes that free will is what causes us to fail.
Yes, God is with us every day, through both the good and the bad. He protects us, but sometimes calls us home before we feel it is our time. All He asks of us is that we believe in Him, and believe in the task He gave us to do, and give it our all to accomplish what He sent us here to do, so that we may return to Him at the end of our physical lives. God shares in our victories as well as our defeats. He feels our joy, and our grief. He is ALWAYS there for us.
excellent post and so true.
damn I think I got something in my eye
quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by cactuspete1
Then lets keep it about guns and keep the religion off here and in the home or the church where it belongs. The religious * when the opposing side states their opinion , "Dont agree with me and you are Prosecuting me" BS.. If you cant debate your position and give some answers then its best not to imply that you know what it is all about. Again believe what you want , but dont demonize those that dont have the same superstitious beliefs you have. You are no better or no worse than they are. In many cases the Hypocrites are much worse.
Being a Christian is part of who I am. If you are of the opinion that I can only be who I am in my home or Church you are sadly mistaken. I'm a Christian twenty-four hours a day, every day, all year long wherever I happen to be. If you don't like that, that's your problem. As long as I have breath and a gun it ain't going to change, and it won't change if I lose the gun. I have no intention of being an "undercover" Christian.
I see you are one of those fine folks who like to throw the word "hypocrite" around. First you need to learn what hypocrite means, then learn that Christians don't have the market cornered.
Well James maybe you will answer a question Eric won't. Do you give credit to your god for your failures as well as your successes in life? It's a simple question really. Does the infailable god cause your flat tires, house fires, and accidents as well as putting the food on your table, finding change in a soda machine, and getting a good parking spot at the store?
I think the best way to answer that is to say that God watches over us at all times. All of the "bad" things that can happen that you listed didn't mention any loss of life, limb, or eyesight. So, yes, God is there, even for the "bad" stuff that we live through. God could care less about our flat tires, and about house fires, as long as his children are safe.
We, all human beings of any color or creed, are God's children. He sends our spirits to the Earth to grow, learn, and mature, and when He feels it is our time, He brings us home.
The planet we live on is not our home. It is a world He built for us to live on until we have achieved what He set us out to do. Sometimes, however, we fail to achieve the goal that God sent us to do.
He gave us free will so that we can achieve His goal for us in our own way. But sometimes that free will is what causes us to fail.
Yes, God is with us every day, through both the good and the bad. He protects us, but sometimes calls us home before we feel it is our time. All He asks of us is that we believe in Him, and believe in the task He gave us to do, and give it our all to accomplish what He sent us here to do, so that we may return to Him at the end of our physical lives. God shares in our victories as well as our defeats. He feels our joy, and our grief. He is ALWAYS there for us.
So what I hear is mumbo jumbo that god does everything and god does nothing.
Poor ole Barzillia can't tell what a success or failure is, except for my facetious examples.
Well, if believing in the invisible man gives you guidance, god knows you need it.
Now Jim needs to give his take on it.
Now Jim needs to give his take on it.
My take is it's a foolish and argumentative question.
Foolish because you assume you know what God's idea of success is, argumentative because you are not looking for an answer, you are looking for an argument.