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Bushmaster Carbon 15 or DPMS Panther Lite?

utbrowningmanutbrowningman Member Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭
edited April 2013 in General Discussion
I need an AR. Nothing fancy just reliability. Sportsman's Warehouse has the Bushmaster Carbon 15 (16") with a red dot scope for 599 and Gunnies has the DPMS (20") A1 or A3 for 599. I know nothing about the AR. Educate me.
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    bhale187bhale187 Member Posts: 7,798
    edited November -1
    The bushy has no forward assist, and while Bushmaster is generally good quality, the 3 people I know who have a carbon model have had nothing but problems with them (feeding issues).

    The DPMS panther lite is the 'pencil' barrel so you can't to alot of sustained rapid fire. It's also not a chrome lined barrel. Nothing particularly wrong with those depending on intended use, but that's a good portion of why it is so cheap.

    Also, there's a pretty big difference in an m4 style 16" (carbon 15), and a 20" a1. I'd suggest playing with them some to decide what barrel length you really want.
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    GrasshopperGrasshopper Member Posts: 16,745 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Those two,,the DPMS ,,I have had two carbons with issues as stated above,,and never got it running properly.
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    buddybbuddyb Member Posts: 5,242 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The only people that would buy a AR with no forward assist are people that that know nothing about ARs.
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    midnightrunpaintballermidnightrunpaintballer Member Posts: 2,233 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    my vote also goes to dpms. shot one with a slide fire stock (pretty much full auto fire rate) no problems whatsoever. And you can find them even cheaper right here on the auction side. I've been watching them for a while.
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    1911a1-fan1911a1-fan Member Posts: 51,193 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bhale187
    The bushy has no forward assist, and while Bushmaster is generally good quality, the 3 people I know who have a carbon model have had nothing but problems with them (feeding issues).

    The DPMS panther lite is the 'pencil' barrel so you can't to alot of sustained rapid fire. It's also not a chrome lined barrel. Nothing particularly wrong with those depending on intended use, but that's a good portion of why it is so cheap.

    Also, there's a pretty big difference in an m4 style 16" (carbon 15), and a 20" a1. I'd suggest playing with them some to decide what barrel length you really want.



    +1
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    WulfmannWulfmann Member Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I can't count how many thousands of rounds I have put through various AR15s and not once has the forward assist done anything.

    If I ever do a custom order I will opt for no FA.

    I have a Keltech SU16CA. (Muzzle brake version) which stores two 10 round mags in the butt stock.
    It is extremely light weight and very reliable. With a piston I clean it once a year.
    It is cheaper than one of the stripped ARs and superior, IMO.

    Now, I prefer my PWS MK114 or FNH FS2000 but if I had to carry one gun on foot the weight saved would equal a bunch of extra ammo.

    Wulfmann
    3YUCmbB.jpg
    "Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
    Otto von Bismarck
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    Sig220_Ruger77Sig220_Ruger77 Member Posts: 12,748 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by buddyb
    The only people that would buy a AR with no forward assist are people that that know nothing about ARs.


    Why? You going to be in a firefight anytime soon? Really don't matter if you are, I have never had to use the forward assist on any of mine. Back in the day, sure, nowadays they are hardly, if ever needed.

    I personally would wait for a little nicer used one to pop up, but I also hunt with mine. If you just want something for plicking, or "to just have one", go for the DPMS. My 2 cents.

    Jon
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    NOAHNOAH Member Posts: 9,690
    edited November -1
    i buy colt AR's with no forward assist[:0]so i know nothing about AR's[?]i'll be damn, and here i thought i was doing good on my old,old collection of SP colts 4 and 5 digit's AR's
    I KNOW NOTHING AHHHH[:X]quote:Originally posted by buddyb
    The only people that would buy a AR with no forward assist are people that that know nothing about ARs.
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    MVPMVP Member Posts: 25,074 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by buddyb
    The only people that would buy a AR with no forward assist are people that that know nothing about ARs.
    So collectors of AR rifles should not buy Colt SP 1's and target shooters who build custom accuate AR's for competition shooting with no need of a Forward assist are just dummies who know nothing about the AR rifles?

    Hmmm I have a lot to learn I guess.
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    JasonVJasonV Member Posts: 2,480 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My Bushmaster Carbon 15 has a forward assist.
    formerly known as warpig883
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    tsavo303tsavo303 Member Posts: 8,900 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    not the carbon
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    ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562 ✭
    edited November -1
    Some outdated info in the above comments. I'll get to that...


    I have a Bushmaster Carbon 15 coming in a day or two. Wanted to try it for the low weight. I am not an AR authority, just relaying from all the reviews and range reports I read before buying. I have perhaps a 1,000 rounds thru my first and current AR.


    The Bushmaster Carbon 15 does have the forward assist. Has for some time. Bushmaster bought the design ten or so years ago and improved on it in stages.


    Early models were a design bought from Professional Ordnance, which had real problems. A non-standard bolt, no FA and no dust cover. Feed problems and bolt breakage. At first Bushmaster made the original design, but then began correcting its flaws. Made the bolt mil-spec. Added the FA and dust cover. Improved the strength of the uppers and lowers.


    $599 for either brand is a good price. They are selling on GB for quite a lot more than that. Mine is from a GB auction at $750, lowest I'd seen here in some time.


    I'd consider the use you plan for it. How much hiking? How much is at target shooting or plinking? Varmint hunting from a hide? Tactical shooting competitions?


    Those answers will emphasize one gun over the other.


    Bushmaster Carbon 15 webpage here:
    http://www.bushmaster.com/firearms/carbon_15.asp
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    shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,815 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'd go with a Panther Lite...for a similar price I would go with a traditional style AR with a forged lower, front sight, forward asst and dust cover.


    That being said, I owned an older Carbon 15, prior to them stripping them down to make them cheap. Mine was a 14.5" with a forged front sight, and was a fantastic rifle, it was light, and it never malfunctioned,. I ran it in two patrol rifle schools and it never needed any lubrication, and fed reliably.

    Standard uppers would not fit on my Carbon 15, the Carbon 15 take down pin and pivot pin was a shorter distance than standard ARs.

    SAM_3932_zpseaf857fa-1_zpsd6387430.jpg
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    ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by shilowar
    I'd go with a Panther Lite...for a similar price I would go with a traditional style AR with a forged lower, front sight, forward asst and dust cover.


    That being said, I owned an older Carbon 15, prior to them stripping them down to make them cheap. Mine was a 14.5" with a forged front sight, and was a fantastic rifle, it was light, and it never malfunctioned,. I ran it in two patrol rifle schools and it never needed any lubrication, and fed reliably.

    Standard uppers would not fit on my Carbon 15, the Carbon 15 take down pin and pivot pin was a shorter distance than standard ARs.

    ...


    Interesting, what did they strip down to cheapen the Carbon 15? Serious question, everything I've read is that they've beefed them up to correct original design weaknesses?

    Here's the auction I won, may arrive today:
    http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=332547507

    What I'm getting is the model 90689, first one on this page:
    http://www.bushmaster.com/firearms/carbon_15.asp

    Looks like you have the model 90732, the third one down?

    My current AR has a Yankee Hill Machine upper. Flat top, Mil-Spec. Will check the fit on the Carbon 15 lower.
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    drobsdrobs Member Posts: 22,531 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Look into a Core AR. They come in a chrome lined 1/7 twist barrel.
    Seeing some on the Auction side in that under $900 range.
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    mstrblastermstrblaster Member Posts: 243 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yea, my carbon has a forward assist also. It says carbon on the box and is made of carbon. I haven't used it a lot, maybe 15 boxes or so, but I have not ever had a jam.
    It is also giving me 1" groups at 100 yds after you get used to the trigger[8D]
    To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go out into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness, how cheap, how cowardly, how pathetic. Ted Nugent.
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    ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562 ✭
    edited November -1
    Just picked up my Carbon 15. Was handing it around to guys on both sides of the counter at the gun shop. This thing is crazy light weight. Feels like I'm holding a 10/22 so far as weight goes.

    Will have to check out the fit of the lower to a mil spec upper. Likely get out to shoot it on the weekend.

    Can't shoot it a lot though. Only a couple thousand rounds on hand. Want it to last a while ... darn it ...


    Edit - some hours later home late from work ...

    quote:Originally posted by shilowar
    ...
    Standard uppers would not fit on my Carbon 15, the Carbon 15 take down pin and pivot pin was a shorter distance than standard ARs.
    ...


    Just checked my new Carbon 15 against my Frankenbuild which has a Mil-Spec flat top Yankee Hill Machine upper. That YHM fits perfectly on the Carbon 15 lower.

    I wonder if some of the stories of problematic Carbon 15's are from the time before Bushmaster began fixing the design they bought from Professional Ordnance?
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    JnRockwallJnRockwall Member Posts: 16,350 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bhale187
    The bushy has no forward assist, and while Bushmaster is generally good quality, the 3 people I know who have a carbon model have had nothing but problems with them (feeding issues).

    The DPMS panther lite is the 'pencil' barrel so you can't to alot of sustained rapid fire. It's also not a chrome lined barrel. Nothing particularly wrong with those depending on intended use, but that's a good portion of why it is so cheap.

    Also, there's a pretty big difference in an m4 style 16" (carbon 15), and a 20" a1. I'd suggest playing with them some to decide what barrel length you really want.


    I find this confusing as almost every M16 has a govt barrel and they are designed to sustain intense rapid firing.

    I am too lazy to go look, but I am sure DPMS has the chromed lined barrels as well.

    Also, I'd like one of those DPMS rifles if you would email me a link.

    Thanks.
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    ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by JnRockwall
    quote:Originally posted by bhale187
    The bushy has no forward assist, and while Bushmaster is generally good quality, the 3 people I know who have a carbon model have had nothing but problems with them (feeding issues).

    The DPMS panther lite is the 'pencil' barrel so you can't to alot of sustained rapid fire. It's also not a chrome lined barrel. Nothing particularly wrong with those depending on intended use, but that's a good portion of why it is so cheap.

    Also, there's a pretty big difference in an m4 style 16" (carbon 15), and a 20" a1. I'd suggest playing with them some to decide what barrel length you really want.


    I find this confusing as almost every M16 has a govt barrel and they are designed to sustain intense rapid firing.

    I am too lazy to go look, but I am sure DPMS has the chromed lined barrels as well.

    Also, I'd like one of those DPMS rifles if you would email me a link.

    Thanks.



    Each of these DPMS are "Lite" series. Thin barrels.


    DPMS A3 Lite 16, $769 List
    http://www.dpmsinc.com/LITE-16-A3_ep_139-1.html

    DPMS A1 Lite 16, $769 List
    http://www.dpmsinc.com/A1-LITE-16_ep_138-1.html

    Standard A1 Lite 20, $869 List
    http://www.dpmsinc.com/A1-LITE-20_ep_109-1.html

    No online guns shown by Sportsman's Warehouse. I do not see any stores listed for Texas:
    http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/
    sportsmans-warehouse-mainlogo.png
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    JnRockwallJnRockwall Member Posts: 16,350 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    all out of stock

    Thanks for the links.

    I have 2 pencil barrels now. I wish my 5.45 and 7.62 were pencils as well.
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