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Decades before there was an A-10 Thunderbolt...

chris8X57chris8X57 Member Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭✭
edited April 2013 in General Discussion
...there was the JU-87G Kanonenvogel (Canonbird), a successful ground support aircraft.

With it's twin 37mm under wing canon, it could peel the lid off any Russian armor.

The cannon pods weighed 600 pounds each, and had six foot long barrels firing tungsten core armor piercing projectiles.
It was said that a good pilot could keep hits on a one foot square target at 150 yards-no small feat in a moving aircraft

The Germans used this Stuka with deadly effect on the masses of Russian T-34s on the Eastern Front.
Hans-Ulrich Rudel alone was confirmed with having in excess of 500 tank kills in Russia using all versions of the Stuka.

Regards,
Chris



[img][/img]bundesarchivbild101i655.jpg

Comments

  • SoreShoulderSoreShoulder Member Posts: 3,148 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Do you know why they didn't just hang a synchronized single cannon from the centerline?
  • chris8X57chris8X57 Member Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by SoreShoulder
    Do you know why they didn't just hang a synchronized single cannon from the centerline?



    The Germans put a 50mm cannon on center line of the ME-410 for using against bombers. But, it was a twin engine, and there were no issues about firing through a propeller arc.
    It was probably just too expensive to re-engineer the Stuka.
  • rongrong Member Posts: 8,459
    edited November -1
    Then the Germans ran out of fuel and
    could fly no more.
  • WarbirdsWarbirds Member Posts: 16,925 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Very cool! I had to go read more about it!
  • steve45steve45 Member Posts: 2,940 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    And in there was this one with twin 23mm cannons in the wings. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-2
  • ltcdotyltcdoty Member Posts: 4,183 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I wonder how many rounds the plane carried?
  • Sam06Sam06 Member Posts: 21,244 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ltcdoty
    I wonder how many rounds the plane carried?


    6 rds per cannon.

    "The two 37 mm (1.46 in) cannons were mounted in under-wing gun pods, each loaded with a six-round magazine of armour-piercing tungsten carbide ammunition. With these weapons, the Kanonenvogel ("cannon-bird"), as it was nicknamed, proved spectacularly successful in the hands of Stuka aces such as Rudel."

    Hans-Ulrich Rudel was a real life bad *. If you have never read his book it is worth the time. Take into account he was an un-repitaint Nazi but a very brave man and a great flyer. He was also the most highly decorated flyer EVER and the highest decorated combat veteran of WW2.
    RLTW

  • grumpygygrumpygy Member Posts: 48,464 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My Vote would be for.

    88-191-bg.jpg
  • GONESHOOTINGGONESHOOTING Member Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My favorite plane![:)]quote:Originally posted by grumpygy
    My Vote would be for.

    88-191-bg.jpg
  • HappyNanoqHappyNanoq Member Posts: 12,023
    edited November -1
    No supressor.?
  • footlongfootlong Member Posts: 8,009
    edited November -1
    The P39 AeraCobra wa the real predecessor of the A10. Firing a 37mm cannon thru the center propeller hub made quick work of German tanks by their RUSSIAN pilots who dearly loved the P39 [;)]
  • steve45steve45 Member Posts: 2,940 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    And these as well, Hurricanes with twin 40MM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix5xN8hlGLo
  • nemesisenforcernemesisenforcer Member Posts: 10,513 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Sam06
    quote:Originally posted by ltcdoty
    I wonder how many rounds the plane carried?


    6 rds per cannon.

    "The two 37 mm (1.46 in) cannons were mounted in under-wing gun pods, each loaded with a six-round magazine of armour-piercing tungsten carbide ammunition. With these weapons, the Kanonenvogel ("cannon-bird"), as it was nicknamed, proved spectacularly successful in the hands of Stuka aces such as Rudel."

    Hans-Ulrich Rudel was a real life bad *. If you have never read his book it is worth the time. Take into account he was an un-repitaint Nazi but a very brave man and a great flyer. He was also the most highly decorated flyer EVER and the highest decorated combat veteran of WW2.



    Easy to shoot slow moving targets on the ground.

    Erich Hartmann (highest scoring fighter ace of all time with 352 air to air victories) would fly circles around this clown.[;)]
  • asphalt cowboyasphalt cowboy Member Posts: 8,904 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by SoreShoulder
    Do you know why they didn't just hang a synchronized single cannon from the centerline?


    I'm just guessing, but it may be because there were already bomb pods under the wings to attach them to.
  • TxsTxs Member Posts: 17,809 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    We stepped into this arena when we fielded a Skyraider mounted with four 20mm cannons as well as 5,500 lbs. of bombs and rockets.

    Following WWII, with it's ability to carry more than it's own weight in armament, Skyraiders were THE US ground attack airplane up until the Vietnam war, where they also made a good showing.

    Here's one at NKP in Thailand

    A-1_Skyraider.jpg
  • SoreShoulderSoreShoulder Member Posts: 3,148 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by footlong
    The P39 AeraCobra wa the real predecessor of the A10. Firing a 37mm cannon thru the center propeller hub made quick work of German tanks by their RUSSIAN pilots who dearly loved the P39 [;)]
    The shell wasn't for antitank war. The Soviets used them for top cover I.e. interceptors.
  • ltslts Member Posts: 811 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Great Stuka and F4 pics. Thanks for the Skyraider pic Txs, was my first thought when I saw this topic.
  • 11b6r11b6r Member Posts: 16,584 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Love the Spads!

    FWIW, during WW 2, there were two aircraft with 75mm cannon- one US, the other German. The Hs129 had twin 75mm guns. The B-25 G had one.
  • Sam06Sam06 Member Posts: 21,244 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You need to really look at the records between Hartman and Rudel
    RLTW

  • nemesisenforcernemesisenforcer Member Posts: 10,513 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Sam06
    You need to really look at the records between Hartman and Rudel


    I have. Rudel dropped bombs on the ground and destroyed a lot of material and targets, no doubt. Hartmann (2 N's) was a FIGHTER pilot, and killed other fighter birds in 3 dimensional combat.
  • kidthatsirishkidthatsirish Member Posts: 6,983 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ah....German records for kills...how much fun, I love how so often nobody looks at the standards for confirming a kill of most allied countries vs. germans pilots....if we were to trust the german accounts of how many kills they all had then there is no way we could have one the war!!![:p]
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,663 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A pair of 37 mm cannon! I love it!

    Great post and pic thanks a lot.

    Damn those Krauts are good at warfare.
  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nemesisenforcer
    quote:Originally posted by Sam06
    quote:Originally posted by ltcdoty
    I wonder how many rounds the plane carried?


    6 rds per cannon.

    "The two 37 mm (1.46 in) cannons were mounted in under-wing gun pods, each loaded with a six-round magazine of armour-piercing tungsten carbide ammunition. With these weapons, the Kanonenvogel ("cannon-bird"), as it was nicknamed, proved spectacularly successful in the hands of Stuka aces such as Rudel."

    Hans-Ulrich Rudel was a real life bad *. If you have never read his book it is worth the time. Take into account he was an un-repitaint Nazi but a very brave man and a great flyer. He was also the most highly decorated flyer EVER and the highest decorated combat veteran of WW2.



    Easy to shoot slow moving targets on the ground.

    Erich Hartmann (highest scoring fighter ace of all time with 352 air to air victories) would fly circles around this clown.[;)]


    But how many ships did he destroy? Rudel sank a destroyer, two cruisers and a BATTLESHIP.
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,457 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Two points: The mention of keeping rounds in one square foot at 150 yards range is irrelevant. If you are still firing at 150 yards range, you are going to hit the target with the plane - with you in it.

    Likewise the comment about slow moving targets on the ground being easy to hit must come from somebody who has never tried to hit anything from a plane. As a qualified fighter pilot, I can tell you it is NOT easy to hit a stationary target, much less a moving one.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • SoreShoulderSoreShoulder Member Posts: 3,148 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
    A pair of 37 mm cannon! I love it!...Damn those Krauts are good at warfare.
    There was a Hurricane with similar armament.
  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I always wondered if the designers of the A 10 had gotten their inspiration from the He 162 Volksjager?
  • Night StalkerNight Stalker Member Posts: 11,967
    edited November -1
    Context matters.

    That aircraft is absolutely worthless to us today.

    Sorry.

    NS
  • grumpygygrumpygy Member Posts: 48,464 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Not Many Would guess This guy either.

    OV-10Xb.jpg

    OV-10DNOGSprototype.jpg

    But I spent some time with VMO-2 and these guys loaded for bear could lay down some fire power. Fully loaded you would not think they could get off the ground.
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,457 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    As underpowered as they were, a loaded OV-10 damn near couldn't get off the ground. You could fly with an external fuel tank and have some loiter time, or load up with ordnance and not be able to leave the traffic pattern before you were minimum fuel. One or the other.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
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