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S&W M&P15 rifles

TxsTxs Member Posts: 18,801
edited October 2009 in General Discussion
Any stories on how the new S&W AR15-type rifles are....besides expensive?
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    WarbirdsWarbirds Member Posts: 16,834 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I just ran accross one today for the first time, I'm also waiting to hear some news about them.
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    CS8161CS8161 Member Posts: 13,595 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just another AR clone..nothing to get too excited about.
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    RamtinxxlRamtinxxl Member Posts: 9,480
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Txs
    Any stories on how the new S&W AR15-type rifles are....besides expensive?


    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=44263955 (under a grand for a high-quality clone?)

    Recent G&A magazine article indicated they demonstrated HIGH accuracy right out of the box. I know, I know--can't trust a gun magazine that sells ads, but I'm still naive.
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    agman1999agman1999 Member Posts: 981 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'll add a minor correction to your statement: You can't trust ANY gun rag, including the one that doesn't take ads. His concept is ok, but he needs to hire someone who understands consistent standards to run his operations.
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    tsavo303tsavo303 Member Posts: 8,900 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    YAWN!
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    hughbetchahughbetcha Member Posts: 7,801 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Chris8161
    Just another AR clone..nothing to get too excited about.


    Exactly! This is a forty year old design folks. There are dozens of contract suppliers for every part of the AR. They've got it down so that any Tom, Dick or Harry, can build an AR clone, so I guess Smith and Wesson should be able to handle stamping their name on one.
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    TxsTxs Member Posts: 18,801
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by hughbetcha
    quote:Originally posted by Chris8161
    Just another AR clone..nothing to get too excited about.


    Exactly! This is a forty year old design folks. There are dozens of contract suppliers for every part of the AR. They've got it down so that any Tom, Dick or Harry, can build an AR clone, so I guess Smith and Wesson should be able to handle stamping their name on one.


    I guess this is why there's never any controversy over who makes the better one. [:D]
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    sandsmojoesandsmojoe Member Posts: 30 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Broke down and bought one on the 7th of July, the basic m4 configuration. Fired 5 rounds over the first weekend - worked fine, didn't check accuracy. Cleaned it, put it away.
    Finally got time to fire again about 10 days later.... every one of 5 rounds didn't extract, ripped the groove off every round - low and behold - the chamber is BADLY scored.[:(!]
    Called S&W - first question is "have you fired any 5.56 NATO from it?". Answered NO. Processing for return & repair.
    THEN, as I'm lookin it over I re-discover the barrel is stamped "5.56 NATO". WTH - Over!
    Send email to S&W asking for the "short answer" IS THIS CHAMBERED FOR 5.56 NATO or NOT. Still waiting for the answer!
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    Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,476 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've put a couple thousand rounds through mine, and with the exception of one broken shell, have never had a failure to feed, fire, or extract.

    Accuracy is as good as I can shoot it. Can usually hold 2" to 2.5" 5 round groups at 100 yds with a 3 MOA dot Holosight. At 100 yds, 3 MOA is approximately 3" so I suspect the rifle is putting the round right where it is supposed to put it.

    It was made by Stag, don't know who is making parts for S $ W now.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
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    COLTCOLT Member Posts: 12,637 ******
    edited November -1
    ...WHICH NEW S & W AR are we taliking about...this thread is 3 1/2 years old...as is the Smith by now, how'd it work out for you?...[:D]


    ani-texas-flag-2.gif
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    fizzerfizzer Member Posts: 748 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Used mine for a 3 day tactical carbine class, ran like a scolded dog. Never 1 problem in the 16 month I have owned it, I have put close to 5k rounds thru it.(3yrs old thread[B)] I feel like an idiot, but love my S&W MP15)

    P3180070.jpg
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    sandsmojoesandsmojoe Member Posts: 30 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    It's somewhat understandable that "one" slips thru now and then, but this chamber was a galded MESS! If you read the jargon on the S&W website, they make it sound like every one is tested so thoroughly as to be impossible to get a defective one.
    Why again did I pay almost 200% for a S&W? Maybe I'm still just a little pi$$ed about it tho.
    Still nothing from S&W about the "5.56 NATO" chambering other than they have "read" the email.
    Anybody have any factual info on the actual chambering? .223 or 5.56?
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    zinkzink Member Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have had two I have had to repair. Seems for awhile they had faulty gas blocks tha has been remedied now. Other than that they are fine.

    Lance
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    cwi555cwi555 Member Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    800px-_223_Remington.jpg

    pay particular attention to the lower case r dimensions. These cartridges headspace on the shoulder. Changes in the shoulder dimensions such as one radius being sharper than the other may not seem like it's that big a deal, but it is a bigger deal than most realize.

    800px-5_56x45mm_NATO.jpg
    Cartidge dimensions .223 and 5.56

    quote:Originally posted by sandsmojoe
    It's somewhat understandable that "one" slips thru now and then, but this chamber was a galded MESS! If you read the jargon on the S&W website, they make it sound like every one is tested so thoroughly as to be impossible to get a defective one.
    Why again did I pay almost 200% for a S&W? Maybe I'm still just a little pi$$ed about it tho.
    Still nothing from S&W about the "5.56 NATO" chambering other than they have "read" the email.
    Anybody have any factual info on the actual chambering? .223 or 5.56?
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    sandsmojoesandsmojoe Member Posts: 30 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, to update everyone:
    Got 2 replies from S&W today. First, my rifle IS chambered fro 5.56 NATO.
    According to the reply, they use a 5.56 field gauge to verify the chambering.
    I take that to mean that the throating or leade is "mil-spec" for 5.56 NATO. YEAH FOR ME, since that is what I wanted.
    I still have concerns about the difference between SAAMI pressure measurement method and that used by NATO. A potential 20,000psi difference is HUGE, potentially fatal!
    In the users manual, S&W continually quotes using SAAMI approved ammunition.
    I'll post again as the story unfolds.
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    sandsmojoesandsmojoe Member Posts: 30 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    P.S. I do realize there ARE differences in the cartridges, but the MAJOR difference, besides brass thickness, seems to be the "throat" or "leade", according to most authorities.
    In 5.56 NATO the leade is longer, allowing the bullet a longer "jump" to the rifling, thus reducing pressure slightly before the bullet engages the rifling.
    According to many sources the difference, between .223 throating and that of 5.56 NATO, translates to as much as a 20,000psi difference in operating pressures!
    I like my head and want to keep it! Shooting ammunition that could remove it is against my religion[:)]
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    TxsTxs Member Posts: 18,801
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by sandsmojoe
    Finally got time to fire again about 10 days later.... every one of 5 rounds didn't extract, ripped the groove off every round - low and behold - the chamber is BADLY scored.[:(!]If I remember correctly, all S&W's AR-type barrels are (were?) actually manufactured by Wilson.
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    jeffb1911jeffb1911 Member Posts: 2,111 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    TXS i'm in Lindale, TX and have one for sale with a SureFire light on it at the shop. If you are nearby you can come look at it and see for yourself. Nothing out of the ordinary with them from what i've seen, other than the stories from people selling other products on how bad they are, or the people selling them that they are better than sliced bread. i'm sure you know that drill.
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    TxsTxs Member Posts: 18,801
    edited November -1
    I'm not slamming S&W's rifles in any way.

    I started this thread way back in '06 before I'd personally examined one and just wanted to hear from those who had. I've since gained a bit of hands on with them and have no complaints.

    My pointing out the actual manufacturer of their barrels was just to inform. Wilson products have an outstanding reputation for quality.
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    RosieRosie Member Posts: 14,525 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I guess I'm dummer from dum and dummer. I always thought those cartridges were the same. I guess you can teach an old dog after all.
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    gunpaqgunpaq Member Posts: 4,607 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Have two, no problems and no complaints.
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    sandsmojoesandsmojoe Member Posts: 30 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    No update yet except I'm still waiting an the Fedex label to send it back for repairs.
    Called at 14:15 last Wednesday.
    [xx(]
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    bhale187bhale187 Member Posts: 7,798
    edited November -1
    A few guys I know own them and they love them with the exception of the T and FT models if you are running iron sights. When you break down the rifle for cleaning and put it back together the sights have to be re-zeroed beacuse those models have the front sight on the handguard and it never seems to go back together exactly like it came apart. Other than that none of them have any complaints on the M&P15.
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    sandsmojoesandsmojoe Member Posts: 30 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    This weeks updates:
    Called S&W on Tuesday, (28th). Recited whole "we'll send you a prepaid shipping label" bit. Told it would be emailed - within 48 hours.
    07/29/09 - received email - label illegible - can't view/print it.
    Called S&W - recited whole story AGAIN! Told prepaid return label would be USPS Mailed - should have it within 1 WEEK!
    Hmmm, and maybe the "checks in the mail"?
    NOT impressed thus far! Still got a busted-*, brand new, unusable rifle.
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    sandsmojoesandsmojoe Member Posts: 30 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    !! YEAH !!
    It's out with the shipper 08/04/09.
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    sandsmojoesandsmojoe Member Posts: 30 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    08/12/09: Called to check on the status of repairs. Automated system said they were "shut down". Finally reached a live person and was told that the rifle reached S&W on 08/11/09 and since they were shut down, it would take about ANOTHER 10 days for it to be returned to ME.
    Well yippy-skippy! It's now spent the first 35 days of it's warranted life BROKE!
    As a commentary: S&W people ARE NOT the most friendly or personable.
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    sandsmojoesandsmojoe Member Posts: 30 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Low and Behold: Got the rifle back on 08/25/09. Fedex driver looked at me pretty funny when I opened the box, opened the rifle and started looking inside the chamber - bright and shiny!!![:D]
    Work order said - Hone chamber.
    In the meantime, I've fired about 20 rounds and none of the brass came out rough. It looks like the problem is fixed!! [:D]
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    quickmajikquickmajik Member Posts: 16,324
    edited November -1
    Well alls well that ends well..[;)][:D]
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    Rebel_JamesRebel_James Member Posts: 4,746
    edited November -1
    You shoulda bought a Stag. When S&W first started 'making' AR's hey had Stag build them.

    S&W is really a higher priced Stag!!



    .
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    lee275lee275 Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by sandsmojoe
    Broke down and bought one on the 7th of July, the basic m4 configuration. Fired 5 rounds over the first weekend - worked fine, didn't check accuracy. Cleaned it, put it away.
    Finally got time to fire again about 10 days later.... every one of 5 rounds didn't extract, ripped the groove off every round - low and behold - the chamber is BADLY scored.[:(!]
    Called S&W - first question is "have you fired any 5.56 NATO from it?". Answered NO. Processing for return & repair.
    THEN, as I'm lookin it over I re-discover the barrel is stamped "5.56 NATO". WTH - Over!
    Send email to S&W asking for the "short answer" IS THIS CHAMBERED FOR 5.56 NATO or NOT. Still waiting for the answer!


    Mine exploded on the 27th round.
    Upper cracked, bolt completely split in 2, dust cover bowed....

    They claim bad ammo and wont replace it. I just got a letter yesterday stating "we wont replace it but you can buy a new one for a discount"

    Pics Here....
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/22508772@N00/sets/72157621153101432/
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    bhale187bhale187 Member Posts: 7,798
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by lee275
    Mine exploded on the 27th round.
    Upper cracked, bolt completely split in 2, dust cover bowed....

    They claim bad ammo and wont replace it. I just got a letter yesterday stating "we wont replace it but you can buy a new one for a discount"

    Pics Here....
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/22508772@N00/sets/72157621153101432/


    Wow, that sucks a fat one. I take it at least no one was hurt anyway. That makes for twice I've heard of S&W screwing people over on M&P 15s.
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    sandsmojoesandsmojoe Member Posts: 30 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Lee,
    Was it commercial .223 ammunition or 5.56 NATO ammunition?
    The first question S&W asked when I called for service was "have you fired 5.56 NATO ammunition".
    Several emails later with S&W before I got a final answer of "Yes, it is chambered for 5.56 NATO and checked with a 5.56 NATO field gauge".
    Apparently MINE wasn't, cause the chamber was rough as a file, right out of the box! Almost 1.5 months of warranty down the drain with a BRAND NEW rifle.
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    sandsmojoesandsmojoe Member Posts: 30 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rebel James:
    Actually I think maybe I need to go back to a REAL rifle.... FN/FAL!
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    legearlegear Member Posts: 6,716
    edited November -1
    quote:Mine exploded on the 27th round.
    Upper cracked, bolt completely split in 2, dust cover bowed....

    They claim bad ammo and wont replace it. I just got a letter yesterday stating "we wont replace it but you can buy a new one for a discount"

    Pics Here....
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/22508772@N00/sets/72157621153101432/[:0][:(!]

    I think S&W should stick to wheel guns. I would contact them and ask whats cheaper, replace my gun or loose sales after I spread my story with pics across the web?
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    storm6490storm6490 Member Posts: 8,010
    edited November -1
    I don't like S&W but set up one for my dad. It was really nice and very accurate. I bumped it out of spite and sure as hell it dumped a 20 round mag like nothing. :) While cleaning it, I noticed that it was well built and smooth right out of the box.

    If I did not hate S&W I would own one.
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    lee275lee275 Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by legear
    quote:Mine exploded on the 27th round.
    Upper cracked, bolt completely split in 2, dust cover bowed....

    They claim bad ammo and wont replace it. I just got a letter yesterday stating "we wont replace it but you can buy a new one for a discount"

    Pics Here....
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/22508772@N00/sets/72157621153101432/[:0][:(!]

    I think S&W should stick to wheel guns. I would contact them and ask whats cheaper, replace my gun or loose sales after I spread my story with pics across the web?



    I would ... If i could get a hold of someone...
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    sandsmojoesandsmojoe Member Posts: 30 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    S&W 1-800-331-0852
    Never had any problems talking to someone, after wading thru the phone system.
    Be insistent... if you don't get the answer you want, ask to talk to a senior supervisor![:(!]

    P.S. Didn't see a reply to whether you were shooting 223 or 5.56 NATO ??
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    lee275lee275 Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by sandsmojoe
    S&W 1-800-331-0852
    Never had any problems talking to someone, after wading thru the phone system.
    Be insistent... if you don't get the answer you want, ask to talk to a senior supervisor![:(!]

    P.S. Didn't see a reply to whether you were shooting 223 or 5.56 NATO ??


    Sorry, I posted this in another forum. I thought i had answered you.
    Remington .223
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    sandsmojoesandsmojoe Member Posts: 30 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the update Lee. I have a few rounds of true 5.56 NATO, but didn't want to shoot them if that is what "blew" your gun.
    I'm still hesitant[:(]
    I paid to darned much money for my rifle to have it blow up on me and S&W disclaim it's own warranty.[xx(]
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    nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,005 ******
    edited November -1
    I have shot many hundreds of rounds of .223 and 5.56 NATO ammo in my S&W M&P15T.
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