In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

gunshow A.D.

JustjumpJustjump Member Posts: 644 ✭✭✭✭
edited February 2011 in General Discussion
Well I'm curious about yalls opinions about an argument I got in today.
Saturday morning my father and I were standing in line to get in a gunshow. We were about 15 feet outside the first set of doors to the convention center when just inside the first set of doors a loud gunshot. Seems some ignorant jackwagon didn't check his 12 gauge SXS and let one go at the ground. The tile floor exploded and at least one person was pretty badly schrapneled <sp> The above mentioned was immmediatly disarmed by someone else. The police were not gentle at all during the arrest. Moron was crying like a 9 YO girl when he saw the police coming. I believe said moron was charged with 3 low end felonies which I'm sure he will plee down.
Today in a local gun store another patron pipped up and said the police were to harsh and he shouldn't be charged because it was an "accident". I nearly snapped. It is only by the grace of god that no one was killed. I explained that when you pick up a firearm you are held to a higher standard and said idiot should be beaten then charged then sit his happy * in a jail to ponder his ignorance for a period of time. I was pissed that someone would defend this behavior. Argument was that it was like a car accident and it just happens. He said like when you maybe have a drink and drive. I cant believe my ears. I know that this person is carrying a small revolver in a crown royal bag in his front pocket (loaded) So I would question his intelligence in the first place I guess even the morons have constitutional rights.
Am I to harsh in my response or is an A.D. in a crowd just a big "OOpssieee"
«1

Comments

  • Colonel PlinkColonel Plink Member Posts: 16,460
    edited November -1
    I've been told that there is no "Accidental" discharge.

    The word is "Negligent"

    They scare the Hell out of me, too.
  • jwb267jwb267 Member Posts: 19,665 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i must say that i agree with you whole heartedly
  • Henry0ReillyHenry0Reilly Member Posts: 10,829 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Some time ago I posted a thread concerning a kid offered me a rifle for sale and when I worked the action, a live round came out. I wanted so bad to do a horizontal butt stroke on him.

    No sir, you are quite correct, an accidental discharge is when a gun malfunctions, this was clearly a negligent discharge and should be punished accordingly.
    I used to recruit for the NRA until they sold us down the river (again!) in Heller v. DC. See my auctions (if any) under username henryreilly
  • torosapotorosapo Member Posts: 4,946
    edited November -1
    It's a sad fact that things like that happen. He should be charged with terminal stupidity. It's even worse when a dealer has a loaded weapon on his table, and it happens.
  • trapguy2007trapguy2007 Member Posts: 8,959
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by torosapo
    It's a sad fact that things like that happen. He should be charged with terminal stupidity. It's even worse when a dealer has a loaded weapon on his table, and it happens.


    Have seen 3 discharges at gun shows .
    Have yet to see any charges filed .
    Even if there were ,it would happen again .
  • armilitearmilite Member Posts: 35,381 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You were 100% right in your statement.
  • ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562
    edited November -1
    Inexcusable incompetence. There are so many reasons this should never happen it just about defies belief that somebody could screw up so bad.

    Before leaving the house your guns should be opened and you check them. All of them. Before you ever get to that gun show you know the status of your guns from just before you left the house. You know they are empty before you case them up and head out.

    At the gun show how do you show your gun is unloaded? Dry fire it at the floor? Reach into a case and drag it out with your finger on the trigger?

    Or do you handle it like it's loaded, keep your fingers the hell clear of the trigger and open the action carefully, deliberately and safely?

    The cops handled him properly. Hope they bruised him up and pummled his dignity down to a greasy spot. A lesson he will never forgot, and should not be allowed to forget.

    Hope the shrapnel victim is going to be alright. Just imagine if that'd been a bit worse, the gun not pointed downward. Or somebody's kid got hit.

    Nothing scares me more than the damned fool peckerwoods in our own midst.
  • storm6490storm6490 Member Posts: 8,010
    edited November -1
    They guy is a complete moron and DOES NOT DESERVE A FELONY!

    He should be fined a few thousand dollars and pay restitution to the person who he harmed. If he does not pay the restitution he should be jailed for a year. NO FELONY.

    It was a dumb accident. It was an accident and not intentional. Not felony type action or behavior.

    My rights come from God and not the Constitution by the way.
  • evileye fleagalevileye fleagal Member Posts: 4,217 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    probably did it on purpose just to bring bad light to a gunshow, damn gov.is involved somehow.
  • trapguy2007trapguy2007 Member Posts: 8,959
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by evileye fleagal
    probably did it on purpose just to bring bad light to a gunshow, damn gov.is involved somehow.





    Now ,don't think that it has not been tried .
    We caught one guy at a AGCA show trying to slip shells in 38 revolvers on tables .
    Watched the law haul him off .
    Never did here the end of it though .
    I read an article about a guy that got caught out West doing the same thing .
  • barbwiredbarbwired Member Posts: 8,254
    edited November -1
    After reading your post at this show you do not have to check your weapons at the door and get the tie wrap put on them?
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    if we werent forced to manipulate our firearms unnecessarily, these types of incidents would dramatically decrease. by requiring us to remove a loaded gun and fiddle with it, they cause this to happen.

    yes, people should be able to load and unload their firearms without shooting something. thats in a perfect world. last i checked, this world wasnt perfect, so there are inevitably morons walking around with guns. forcing them to take them out and mess with them gets you tis result.
  • MrM1A1MrM1A1 Member Posts: 2,762 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by storm6490
    They guy is a complete moron and DOES NOT DESERVE A FELONY!

    He should be fined a few thousand dollars and pay restitution to the person who he harmed. If he does not pay the restitution he should be jailed for a year. NO FELONY.

    It was a dumb accident. It was an accident and not intentional. Not felony type action or behavior.

    My rights come from God and not the Constitution by the way.




    I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one. I think he does deserve at least one felony charge for his actions. His neglegence could've easily caused loss of life and should be handled as such. That man should NEVER be allowed to own a firearm again. That guy gives responsible gun owners a bad name, should hook his balls up to a car battery...
  • JustjumpJustjump Member Posts: 644 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by barbwired
    After reading your post at this show you do not have to check your weapons at the door and get the tie wrap put on them?


    We had not yet reached the check in table. He was about 8 feet from the table.
    He wasn't manipulating weapon for inspection. He was mindlessly diddling the trigger while yapping at the guy with him.
    I would not be in a show if people were not required to display an unloaded weapon. To much bumping going on.
    Respectfully Kev. You cant seriously think that you should not be held responsible for acts of outright negligent behavior??
    How can one persons ineptness be blamed on another?
  • ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562
    edited November -1
    The proper thing is for the cops to book him on everything they think they should, given the circumstances they discovered at the scene.

    Then we should all know what comes next.

    The prosecutor's office determines charges. The defense haggles, maybe they plea it out and no trial. Or maybe there's a trial and then a jury decides. Or a plea fore goes a jury trial and it goes to the judge. Then for any guilty decision the judge decides the punishment.

    It's a long road ahead for someone who was inexcusably careless, at best.

    The "at worst" part is what all the charging, plea'ing, jury'ing and judging will be figuring out.
  • barbwiredbarbwired Member Posts: 8,254
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Justjump
    quote:Originally posted by barbwired
    After reading your post at this show you do not have to check your weapons at the door and get the tie wrap put on them?


    We had not yet reached the check in table. He was about 8 feet from the table.
    He wasn't manipulating weapon for inspection. He was mindlessly diddling the trigger while yapping at the guy with him.
    I would not be in a show if people were not required to display an unloaded weapon. To much bumping going on.
    Respectfully Kev. You cant seriously think that you should not be held responsible for acts of outright negligent behavior??
    How can one persons ineptness be blamed on another?
    Thank you , I was just wondering if he had to check his weapon.
  • JustjumpJustjump Member Posts: 644 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by MrM1A1
    quote:Originally posted by storm6490





    I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one. I think he does deserve at least one felony charge for his actions. His neglegence could've easily caused loss of life and should be handled as such. That man should NEVER be allowed to own a firearm again. That guy gives responsible gun owners a bad name, should hook his balls up to a car battery...



    Thank you!!!! I think that would be a good start. I think if security had not isolated him so quickly he would have been beaten soundly. Most were checking for wounds.
    I'm not the court system and I was 15 feet away so I only looked after the bang!! But I think a felony should be on the table at least
  • fishkiller41fishkiller41 Member Posts: 50,608
    edited November -1
    Just from watching my Pop and my Uncles handle and examine firearms,I picked up the habit of ALWAYS OPENING THE ACTION and inspecting the chamber and magazine for ammo.The first time I was ever allowed to handle a firearm,it came to me automatically..
    It seems alien to me,for someone to NOT do it,even if the person handing the arm to them just did...
    The guy that fired into the floor at the show,to me, isn't a "FELON" but, he is a very naive and untrustworthy gun owner.Maybe untrustworthy enough to never handle firearms again..
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    no, he should be held responsible for being a moron. in mass, he would have lost his license to carry. not sure how i feel about him doing time for it, but definitely needs his pecker slapped in one manner or another.

    still shouldnt have happened, and likely wouldnt have if we didnt have to clear our weapons at the door.

    to my eyes, you're either qualified to carry a gun or your not. if you're qualified, then having to clear it before entering a gun show is stupid. if you're not, then you shouldnt have a gun to begin with.
  • matwormatwor Member Posts: 20,594
    edited November -1
    Keep your booger hook off the bang switch fellers, unless you plan on destroyin' sumpin'.
  • MVPMVP Member Posts: 25,074
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by matwor
    Keep your booger hook off the bang switch fellers, unless you plan on destroyin' sumpin'.

    +1
    Plus I have a habit of checking the chamber of any firearm I pick up, even if I know it is not loaded, I still check.
  • swampgutswampgut Member Posts: 5,555
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by matwor
    Keep your booger hook off the bang switch fellers, unless you plan on destroyin' sumpin'.


    LOL
  • stevec22stevec22 Member Posts: 74 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had a table set up at that show. The guy was definitely a dumba$$.
  • swampgutswampgut Member Posts: 5,555
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by storm6490
    They guy is a complete moron and DOES NOT DESERVE A FELONY!

    He should be fined a few thousand dollars and pay restitution to the person who he harmed. If he does not pay the restitution he should be jailed for a year. NO FELONY.

    It was a dumb accident. It was an accident and not intentional. Not felony type action or behavior.

    My rights come from God and not the Constitution by the way.



    I agree with you.

    He's an idiot and should pay for the damage and the injuries sustained including compensation to those harmed beyond their injuries.

    When I go to gun shows I'm amazed at how often you get a gun pointed at you.

    I don't appreciate it and flinch every time some yahoo starts swinging a rifle round.

    If somebody were behind me I would make sure they weren't pointing a gun at me.

    Apparently the guy had it pointed at the ground so he's not completely stupid.

    What state was this in Justjump?
  • stevec22stevec22 Member Posts: 74 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Springdale Arkansas
  • bullshotbullshot Member Posts: 13,174 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by KEVD18
    if we werent forced to manipulate our firearms unnecessarily, these types of incidents would dramatically decrease. by requiring us to remove a loaded gun and fiddle with it, they cause this to happen.

    yes, people should be able to load and unload their firearms without shooting something. thats in a perfect world. last i checked, this world wasnt perfect, so there are inevitably morons walking around with guns. forcing them to take them out and mess with them gets you tis result.


    Oh, Come on, why would anyone (Moron's included) take a firearm of any type to an event like a gun show loaded. Anyone that has ever been to a gun show knows the drill. Even if you have never been to a gun show in your life why would you not cycle the weapon at home to be sure it's safe. To say that "if we weren't forced to manipulate our firearms unnecessarily" is laughable, OF COURSE IT'S NECESSARY because this crap happens if you aren't forced to do so.
    If you go to church on Sunday or to work on Monday, I'm sure that you remember to put on your pants before you leave the house. Well if you go to a gun show then remember to UNLOAD YOUR FIREARM. It should be just as automatic.
    And hell yes it should be a felony, lives are at stake.

    "Worth what you paid for it"
    "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you"
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    i agree that you should be able to unload your firearm safely and that if you're going to a place that doesnt allow loaded guns, that you should be able to have that situation dealt with prior to the unloading station.

    what im saying is that the mere idea that we HAVE TO unload our firearms at all is ludicrous. if you just leave the gun in the holster, and its in serviceable condition and of quality manufacture, it wont go off. matwor nailed it. keep your finger clear of the trigger and all is well in the world.

    requiring us to unload our guns at the door is a rule that punishes the many based on the incompetence of the few. i dont have to unload my gun to walk around the mall, walmart, the market etc and id argue that at their peak times of the day/week they are just as crowded as the gun show.

    then again, this entire opinion is based on the fact that im not a moron. those who are cant be helped to unholster their iron at every opportunity and wave it around. these are the jackwagons that evidently cant be trusted with guns to begin with.

    all this policy does is move the location of the discharge from the middle of the show to the check in station. clearly, as evidenced in this case and many other i would imagine, this doesnt prevent innocent bystanders from being hurt. it merely serves to inconvenience the many based on the foolish actions of the few. isnt that the primary argument we make against the majority of senseless gun control legislation.
  • bullshotbullshot Member Posts: 13,174 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What I'm understanding then is that you are referring to your carry weapon. In that case, I agree with you but even then if it's known that loaded weapons aren't allowed then unloading should have already been done prior to getting to the show.
    I guess that the worry would be, that many loaded guns in that confined space. The venders and property owners are just trying cover their butts and appease the Insurance companies.
    "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you"
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    yes, im talking about your carry gun. clearly, for sale guns should be unloaded ahead of time, checked, rechecked, and checked again before being put out on the table for every nit wit, half wit, dim wit, and jackwagon to fondle(tried real hard to come up with another xxx-wit. couldnt get it done).

    so we're in agreement that, knowing you will need to have your gun unloaded, you should execute that prior to entering the show. i think we're in agreement that it should have to be done. the only other thing to hash out is this statement:

    "I guess that the worry would be, that many loaded guns in that confined space."

    bs. to my eyes, you're either qualified to carry a gun or your not and if you're not, then you shouldnt have one. if you are, then you should be able to be in any room, big or small, regardless of how many people are there armed or otherwise and be able to go about your life without killing people.

    i understand that its an insurance requirement that the guns be unloaded. again, thats a rule that punishes the many for the actions of the few. how about we punish the few and let the many live happy, normal, and free lives?
  • JamesRKJamesRK Member Posts: 25,672 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't believe in accidents. Guns, automobiles, or anything else. What people call accidents are nothing more than premeditated carelessness.
    The road to hell is paved with COMPROMISE.
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
    I don't believe in accidents. Guns, automobiles, or anything else. What people call accidents are nothing more than premeditated carelessness.


    i disagree. while i would agree with you if you'd said "most accident are nothing more..."; there are freak accidents that just happen. all safety protocols followed, due diligence taken, etc. most accidents are the result of someones stupidity. some are just freak occurrences.
  • bullshotbullshot Member Posts: 13,174 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Again, I agree with you. I was talking about the perspective of the building owner and the insurance companies.
    Those of us that have had weapons training and are licensed to carry, should be able to carry anywhere. It's ridiculous that a gun show, which is clearly aimed at promoting guns and gun sales to civilians and offers classes for legal concealed carry of firearms would ban loaded weapons carried by individuals with state issued permits to do so.
    "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you"
  • TxsTxs Member Posts: 18,801
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
    I don't believe in accidents. Guns, automobiles, or anything else. What people call accidents are nothing more than premeditated carelessness.
    quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
    I don't believe in accidents. Guns, automobiles, or anything else. What people call accidents are nothing more than premeditated carelessness.+1

    I have to fight to keep from rolling my eyes every time I hear someone trot out the old negligent vs. accidental statement as if it's profound.

    By definition, accidents are a result of negligence.

    THAT is the lesson which should be hammered into people instead of playing semantics games.
  • MrM1A1MrM1A1 Member Posts: 2,762 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Kev, the issue in the OP has nothing to do with a carry weapon, it was a shotgun. Has nothing to do with declaring/clearing carry weapons that everyone assumes are loaded. This was an uncased, untied, LOADED shotgun that the moron fired off into the tile floor, not a pistol he was unloading from his holster. Two completely different situations.
  • 1988z011988z01 Member Posts: 602 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No such thing as an accidental discharge. Like the comment above says, it is ignorance and negligence. Just because you didn't mean to, or you thought it was unloaded, or anything - it is just negligence.
  • pitbud5pitbud5 Member Posts: 1,276 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by evileye fleagal
    probably did it on purpose just to bring bad light to a gunshow, damn gov.is involved somehow.




    [:D]
  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,402
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 1988z01
    No such thing as an accidental discharge. Like the comment above says, it is ignorance and negligence. Just because you didn't mean to, or you thought it was unloaded, or anything - it is just negligence.


    Many years ago I bought a kar 98 & when I got home I ran a loaded round through it. As soon as I closed the bolt it fired. At least I was in the back yard & had it pointed at the ground. That was clearly a malfunction & therefore an AD.
  • texdottexdot Member Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A gunsmith and former teacher of mine had the misfortune of being escorted to the door of a Houston gun show and promptly told never to return after a similiar incident.A .44 belonging to him fired into the air,even after it had been checked.Don't know the specifics but he was permanantly banned and took the incident as a serious error on his part and never argued the point.
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    fair enough. missed that part. i need to skim less.

    but my opinion, while not relevant in this situation, is still quite valid and im sticking to it.
  • JamesRKJamesRK Member Posts: 25,672 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by gruntled
    Many years ago I bought a kar 98 & when I got home I ran a loaded round through it. As soon as I closed the bolt it fired. At least I was in the back yard & had it pointed at the ground. That was clearly a malfunction & therefore an AD.
    I must respectfully disagree.

    We are getting close to changing the subject of this thread, but accidents are close enough to the subject I guess it's not really a hijack.

    The incident you describe is most definitely traceable to negligence. Not your negligence in this case, but clearly negligence, and probably fraud, on the face of it.

    I've investigated a few accidents, and read hundreds if not thousands of accident reports. I haven't found one yet that could not be traced to negligence at some level, no matter how "freaky" the accident.

    People who investigate accidents for a living will tell you accidents are not only always negligence, but if you dig deep enough you can almost always tag a name on it.
    The road to hell is paved with COMPROMISE.
Sign In or Register to comment.