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Russian prototype revolver from the 1990s, MP412?
JTofSD
Member Posts: 119 ✭✭
Does anyone know if anything ever caem out of the Russian designed MP412 REX? From what I have heard and read it was a double-action .357 magnum revolver with a break-action chamber and an automatic ejector.
Did any other company offer a similar design? Or is the MP412 just one of the many weapons which never made it into full production?
Are there any similar type of modern revolvers that are breach-action?
Thanks
Did any other company offer a similar design? Or is the MP412 just one of the many weapons which never made it into full production?
Are there any similar type of modern revolvers that are breach-action?
Thanks
Comments
http://www.uberti.com/top-break-revolver
Neal
Wasn't there a revolver designed to shoot all the .38 cartridges from .380 to 9mm to .38 spec to .357? It used a variable star mechanism in the cylinder.
Neal
That's the Medusa Model 47
A top break 357 doesn't sound very interesting or sturdy for that matter. I'm not sure any were made or exported.
The Medusa Model 47 at looks interesting perhaps 500 made?
Obviously, there are historical break-top revolvers out there like the Webley, if you're so inclined. As already mentioned, Uberti has a current production break-top reproduction of a Schofield revolver in .38 special, .44/40 and .45 Colt. Cimarron Arms also offers reproductions of the Schofield and Russian #3 top break revolvers:
http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/cartridge-revolvers/top-break.html
Smith and Wesson offered a modern Schofield reproduction a few years ago, though it doesn't anymore. Also, FWIW, for a short while North American arms offered a single-action mini top break revolver in .22 magnum.
IMO, since just about every modern DA revolver has a star ejector that will throw out all empties with one push, the top-break feature doesn't really add much. You're trading a little extra speed/convenience in ejecting empties for a fundamentally weaker frame, and I don't think its a worthwhile trade. Traditional top-break designs just aren't strong enough to handle the pounding of a .357 magnum, and eventually the lock fails. While I'm sure somebody could come up with a viable top-break 357 design, I just don't think there is enough demand for these to justify tooling up for this (see REX 412), and there are reasons why nobody actually offers this.
On Medusa, obviously, question of revolver that can handle different types of ammo is different than top break vs swing-out cylinder.
Yes, in theory the Medusa revolver can safely handle 25(+?) different types of cartridges. The concept and design are pretty cool.
But in practice, I think the value of this ability is less than it may seem. *Any* .357 magnum revolver can ALSO fire: "357 magnum, .38 special, .38+P, .38+P+, .38 long colt, .38 short colt" and the other rimmed .38 class cartridges of this type. So that's not really an advantage. Some 357s will also accept .38 super with no modification. Likewise, many of the 9mm class cartridges "can" (though maybe shouldn't) be fired safely through a variety of the longer-type 9mm auto guns. EG, 9x23 guns can often handle .38 super, 9mm largo, etc.
While its nice that a given revolver "can" handle 9mm Glisenti, 9mm Mauser, 9mm Steyr, 9x18 mm ultra, .38 long colt, and other historical/esoteric rounds like them, the reality is that most of these types of ammo are obsolete and either hard to find, or entirely unavailable. Having a gun that fires a type of ammo you're probably not ever going to encounter doesn't really help much. In practice, if you're in the USA, the only rounds you're likely to encounter in this class are 357, 38 special, .38 super, 9mm luger, and 9x18 (aka .380).
Guns for all of these are relatively inexpensive and readily available. If you were interested in having one gun that could accept all of these, its possible to have a custom 9mm cylinder fitted to a conventional 357 revolver. While its not quite the same as a stock gun accepting everything, this would get you most of the way there at relatively low cost.
Russian MP412 REX top break 357 revolver was designed specifically for export, but perceived demand was too low for anyone to actually want to import them. I'm not aware of any other company that currently makes something like this.
Obviously, there are historical break-top revolvers out there like the Webley, if you're so inclined. As already mentioned, Uberti has a current production break-top reproduction of a Schofield revolver in .38 special, .44/40 and .45 Colt. Cimarron Arms also offers reproductions of the Schofield and Russian #3 top break revolvers:
http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/cartridge-revolvers/top-break.html
Smith and Wesson offered a modern Schofield reproduction a few years ago, though it doesn't anymore. Also, FWIW, for a short while North American arms offered a single-action mini top break revolver in .22 magnum.
IMO, since just about every modern DA revolver has a star ejector that will throw out all empties with one push, the top-break feature doesn't really add much. You're trading a little extra speed/convenience in ejecting empties for a fundamentally weaker frame, and I don't think its a worthwhile trade. Traditional top-break designs just aren't strong enough to handle the pounding of a .357 magnum, and eventually the lock fails. While I'm sure somebody could come up with a viable top-break 357 design, I just don't think there is enough demand for these to justify tooling up for this (see REX 412), and there are reasons why nobody actually offers this.
On Medusa, obviously, question of revolver that can handle different types of ammo is different than top break vs swing-out cylinder.
Yes, in theory the Medusa revolver can safely handle 25(+?) different types of cartridges. The concept and design are pretty cool.
But in practice, I think the value of this ability is less than it may seem. *Any* .357 magnum revolver can ALSO fire: "357 magnum, .38 special, .38+P, .38+P+, .38 long colt, .38 short colt" and the other rimmed .38 class cartridges of this type. So that's not really an advantage. Some 357s will also accept .38 super with no modification. Likewise, many of the 9mm class cartridges "can" (though maybe shouldn't) be fired safely through a variety of the longer-type 9mm auto guns. EG, 9x23 guns can often handle .38 super, 9mm largo, etc.
While its nice that a given revolver "can" handle 9mm Glisenti, 9mm Mauser, 9mm Steyr, 9x18 mm ultra, .38 long colt, and other historical/esoteric rounds like them, the reality is that most of these types of ammo are obsolete and either hard to find, or entirely unavailable. Having a gun that fires a type of ammo you're probably not ever going to encounter doesn't really help much. In practice, if you're in the USA, the only rounds you're likely to encounter in this class are 357, 38 special, .38 super, 9mm luger, and 9x18 (aka .380).
Guns for all of these are relatively inexpensive and readily available. If you were interested in having one gun that could accept all of these, its possible to have a custom 9mm cylinder fitted to a conventional 357 revolver. While its not quite the same as a stock gun accepting everything, this would get you most of the way there at relatively low cost.
The 9mm conversion idea is interesting.
Thanks for the thoughtful and informative post. I appreciate it.
The 9mm conversion idea is interesting.
Thanks for the thoughtful and informative post. I appreciate it.
You're welcome.
For what its worth for many years Ruger has put out a convertible single-action Blackhawk revolver in .357 with convertible 9mm cylinder. These are readily available, and not too expensive, if you're interested.
They also make the same gun in .45LC with a convertible .45ACP cylinder.
If you're interested in converting a conventional revolver to accept 9mm type rounds see here: http://www.pinnacle-*/revolver.asp
This outfit will convert certain standard Smith or Ruger .357s to accept 9x23, .38 super, and 9mm luger (with moonclips) for about $250, depending on exact gun. The problem with a straight conversion like this is that the gun won't run ordinary .38s/357s afterwards, at least not normally. So optimally you'll have this done to a second cylinder, then you can swap cylinders if you want to swap calibers. Having the second cylinder timed will likely add to the expense here.
Again, not quite the same as a DA gun where you can basically drop any .38/9mm class round in there (or even six different ones at once!) and eject all of them normally, but its a potentially nice option to have.
If you just want a 9mm luger revolver (and don't care about conversions, 38 Super, or 9x23) Smith actually has a really nice one out now via its Performance center, though its pretty spendy!
===
Edit: Responding to below I agree, over $1000 is a lot to pay for a 9mm revolver, though the Smith Performance Center one is dedicated 9mm with appropriately short cylinder, so you should get both good accuracy and velocity. Jerry Miculek seems to do OK with one, though as always its more a question of the operator than the equipment, I think:
If you just want "any" 9mm revolver, these have undergone a sort of "renaissance now, and there are actually several currently on the market"
I mentioned the Ruger 357/9mm conversion single action Blackhawk revolver. Ruger, Charter Arms and Taurus all currently offer conventional 9mm snubnose revolvers for carry, and Rhino (imported by Chiappa) has one that's a bit unconventional. There is also this mid-sized revolver from Czechpoint: https://www.czechpoint-usa.com/czechpoint-9231-9mm-para Don't know how easy these are to actually get your hands on, but its a possible option.
Smith has offered a J frame in 9mm in the past (model 940), though these are currently scarce and expensive. Smith has has also put out a K-frame 9mm in the past (model 547), intended for export (IIRC to France), and although pretty rare, you can sometimes find these.
I'd be inclined to buy a medium frame 9mm revolver if it were made by Smith or Ruger, and if it were "normally" priced. I don't think that's going to happen though. Just not enough interest by the shooting public for something like that.
quote:Originally posted by JTofSD
The 9mm conversion idea is interesting.
Thanks for the thoughtful and informative post. I appreciate it.
You're welcome.
For what its worth for many years Ruger has put out a convertible single-action Blackhawk revolver in .357 with convertible 9mm cylinder. These are readily available, and not too expensive, if you're interested.
They also make the same gun in .45LC with a convertible .45ACP cylinder.
If you're interested in converting a conventional revolver to accept 9mm type rounds see here: http://www.pinnacle-*/revolver.asp
This outfit will convert certain standard Smith or Ruger .357s to accept 9x23, .38 super, and 9mm luger (with moonclips) for about $250, depending on exact gun. The problem with a straight conversion like this is that the gun won't run ordinary .38s/357s afterwards, at least not normally. So optimally you'll have this done to a second cylinder, then you can swap cylinders if you want to swap calibers. Having the second cylinder timed will likely add to the expense here.
Again, not quite the same as a DA gun where you can basically drop any .38/9mm class round in there (or even six different ones at once!) and eject all of them normally, but its a potentially nice option to have.
If you just want a 9mm luger revolver (and don't care about conversions, 38 Super, or 9x23) Smith actually has a really nice one out now via its Performance center, though its pretty spendy!
I have seen that S&W and it is nice, but at about $1000 it is spendy. Seemed to have nice balance and fit my hand well. I am tempted.
It's especially true when combined with an automatic ejection system. With this design the idea is that the gun is run completely dry before any ammo is replaced, which is not how you want to use a revolver in any situation beyond range gaming.