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Win. Sabot Slug Problem ???

s.guns.gun Member Posts: 3,245
edited October 2014 in Ask the Experts
Why would a Rem. 870 shoot a 2 inch group at 50 yes and 12 inch group at 100yds...the gun has a rifled barrel, and always stayed within 4 inch at 100 with the Rem. Sabots...It shot any type slug under 4 inch at 100...wanted to use these hour glass shape , made of solid lead Win.......Called Win. And they were of no help......they do the same in both 12 or 20 ga...Both these guns always stayed under 4 inch at 100 yds with Rem. or Federal...Bought 25 boxes of these Winchester at $14 a box and very dissapointed.......[:(]. .???

Comments

  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    Different rate of twist as well as the CD and shape of projectile
    Makes for unstable flight as the velocity gets slower . This happens in Rifles as well as pistols In a 45acp shooting factory 230 grain ball as well as reloads in the 830 FPS range will shoot groups at 25 yards that will be around 3 times the size using same ammo when shot from a ransom rest at 50 yards drop that velocity to 750 FPS and group size may not be over 10% larger at 25 yards but 10-15 Larger at 50 yards My advice get another gun or sell the ammo That you got cheap because it did not shoot well in other guns either.
  • s.guns.gun Member Posts: 3,245
    edited November -1
    ...$ 14..00 a box of 5 is not cheap...
  • s.guns.gun Member Posts: 3,245
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by s.gun
    ...$ 14..00 a box of 5 is not cheap...
    . Same Gun with Win.Sabot go wild only at 100...Shoots all other Sabots just fine...Gun has shot other brands just fine for 20 years with the same rate of twist...
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    OK forget I called them Cheap Sorry They don't shoot well in any gun you have and Winchester "WAS NO HELP" be cause they don't have an answer you want them to give you. Face it the ammo does NOT match your guns most probably the shape does not Match your guns . It is an expensive MISTAKE that you have made and IMHO Nothing short of changing either ammo or guns will give you desired results. Most people would suggest to buy only one box of a different brand of ammo to try and if that one did not work well try one box of another kind until you find one that works. The deer will not be able to tell what design the bullet is.
  • babunbabun Member Posts: 11,497
    edited November -1
    You are getting into Ballistic Coefficient areas.
    The sabot round probably uses a pistol bullet that has a better BC than the hour glass slug.
    IE... the 6.5mm x 55 swiss shell just plain shoots better at long ranges because of the long thin {for it's size} bullet, than a similar
    30 cal. bullet.
  • zimmdenzimmden Member Posts: 237 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have 4 Rem slug guns (2 870's and 2 1100's) all with Hastings Paradox barrels. All shoot the 1 oz Win-BRI Sabot (hour glass) slug very well to 100 yds. Other slugs have very different POI and are less consistent. I suspect the Rem barrel was not developed (rate of twist, slug weight etc) with Winchester ammo in mind. As Perry Shooter says you must match ammo to what the barrel likes. Shotgun slugs vary by weight, shape, material, speed and sabots more so than rifle bullets making for mandatory testing.
  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I highly suspect that your bore needs to be meticulously cleaned. Especially if you shot "ANY TYPE OF SLUG", means lead foster type rifled slugs.

    Use a good lead remover, and then a good choke tube cleaner to get all of the plastic out of the bore.

    Best
  • wanted manwanted man Member Posts: 3,276
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by zimmden
    I have 4 Rem slug guns (2 870's and 2 1100's) all with Hastings Paradox barrels. All shoot the 1 oz Win-BRI Sabot (hour glass) slug very well to 100 yds. Other slugs have very different POI and are less consistent. I suspect the Rem barrel was not developed (rate of twist, slug weight etc) with Winchester ammo in mind. As Perry Shooter says you must match ammo to what the barrel likes. Shotgun slugs vary by weight, shape, material, speed and sabots more so than rifle bullets making for mandatory testing.


    I have a good friend who has a Hastings barrel on one of his 12 ga, guns. The Barrel twist is OPPOSITE of the twist on rifled slugs, and -for whatever the reason- that thing is unbelievably ACCURATE!



    I shoot Hornady 300 gr sabots EXCLUSIVELY in my Mossberg 12 ga. which is a dedicated slug gun set-up. I've killed deer @ ranges in excess of 200 yds and couldn't be happier..........YMMV
  • charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    +1 for clean the bore really good to make sure there isn't a plastic build up. I had ok luck with the original BRI sabots. I changed over to making my own cast Lyman 540 gr with a red AA wad as the sabot. 3# coffee almost every time at 90 yards from an iron sighted 20" smooth bore pistol gripped 870. I added a small mid bead to function as rear sight. Skeet #2 choke tube and fairly hard alloy water quenched. Unique powder and Silver AA case Win 209 primer.

    I shot lots because they were nearly free, I'm sure less than a dime a pop.
  • redhawkk480redhawkk480 Member Posts: 2,351 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by wanted man
    quote:Originally posted by zimmden
    I have 4 Rem slug guns (2 870's and 2 1100's) all with Hastings Paradox barrels. All shoot the 1 oz Win-BRI Sabot (hour glass) slug very well to 100 yds. Other slugs have very different POI and are less consistent. I suspect the Rem barrel was not developed (rate of twist, slug weight etc) with Winchester ammo in mind. As Perry Shooter says you must match ammo to what the barrel likes. Shotgun slugs vary by weight, shape, material, speed and sabots more so than rifle bullets making for mandatory testing.


    I have a good friend who has a Hastings barrel on one of his 12 ga, guns. The Barrel twist is OPPOSITE of the twist on rifled slugs, and -for whatever the reason- that thing is unbelievably ACCURATE!



    I shoot Hornady 300 gr sabots EXCLUSIVELY in my Mossberg 12 ga. which is a dedicated slug gun set-up. I've killed deer @ ranges in excess of 200 yds and couldn't be happier..........YMMV


    your friend should not be using rifled slugs in a rifled barrel , rifled slug are for use in a smooth bore
  • wanted manwanted man Member Posts: 3,276
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by redhawkk480
    quote:Originally posted by wanted man
    quote:Originally posted by zimmden
    I have 4 Rem slug guns (2 870's and 2 1100's) all with Hastings Paradox barrels. All shoot the 1 oz Win-BRI Sabot (hour glass) slug very well to 100 yds. Other slugs have very different POI and are less consistent. I suspect the Rem barrel was not developed (rate of twist, slug weight etc) with Winchester ammo in mind. As Perry Shooter says you must match ammo to what the barrel likes. Shotgun slugs vary by weight, shape, material, speed and sabots more so than rifle bullets making for mandatory testing.


    I have a good friend who has a Hastings barrel on one of his 12 ga, guns. The Barrel twist is OPPOSITE of the twist on rifled slugs, and -for whatever the reason- that thing is unbelievably ACCURATE!



    I shoot Hornady 300 gr sabots EXCLUSIVELY in my Mossberg 12 ga. which is a dedicated slug gun set-up. I've killed deer @ ranges in excess of 200 yds and couldn't be happier..........YMMV


    your friend should not be using rifled slugs in a rifled barrel , rifled slug are for use in a smooth bore


    Yes, I know..........
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