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Do you like your Keltec pmr-30

foofoo Member Posts: 93 ✭✭
edited January 2015 in Ask the Experts
Wondering how someone out there with one likes it? pro's and con's

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    rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Have had one since 8/13, very happy with it. Shoots anything. My round count since new is 1,500+. Favorite ammo is the CCI 30 grain, JHP, hyper-velocity, with the nickel plated cases.
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    chiefrchiefr Member Posts: 13,897 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I see them at the range every now and then. Every owner that I talk to loves them and none have malfunctioned.

    Biggest gripe is trying to find one.
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    hdcolt51hdcolt51 Member Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Love mine,have shot 5 different brands of ammo never a problem.
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    beantownshootahbeantownshootah Member Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Don't own one, but got a friend (who was been shooting and trading guns for 45+ years) who bought one right after they came out, and had the thing jam every few shots...when it did work, accuracy was poor.

    He returned it.

    In fairness, supposedly the first models had issues, and Kel-Tec has made a number of changes to the gun in the four years since then. I've heard the newer ones are a lot better (accuracy, and reliability).

    Ballistics of .22magnum from this pistol are similar to .22LR from a rifle. That could make it nice for hunting small game and maybe certain kinds of plinking.

    Despite the capacity, I don't think I'd want this for defense, though. (IE I'd rather have 15-17 9mms).
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    rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
    Don't own one, but got a friend (who was been shooting and trading guns for 45+ years) who bought one right after they came out, and had the thing jam every few shots...when it did work, accuracy was poor.

    He returned it.

    In fairness, supposedly the first models had issues, and Kel-Tec has made a number of changes to the gun in the four years since then. I've heard the newer ones are a lot better (accuracy, and reliability).

    Ballistics of .22magnum from this pistol are similar to .22LR from a rifle. That could make it nice for hunting small game and maybe certain kinds of plinking.

    Despite the capacity, I don't think I'd want this for defense, though. (IE I'd rather have 15-17 9mms).




    Don't agree with this, as far as the CCI 30 grain, .22 mag cartridge is concerned. Common High Speed .22 LR ammo, from a 18" rifle barrel, is 1275 fps max. The 30 grain CCI .22 mag from a pistol is 1500+ fps. I have shot some bunnies with it. Works way better than .22 LR.
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    reload999reload999 Member Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have one and like it very much. I use CCI Maxi-Mag 40 gr ammo mostly. It's reasonably accurate and functions perfectly. It's a lot of fun to shoot.
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    beantownshootahbeantownshootah Member Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
    quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
    Ballistics of .22magnum from this pistol are similar to .22LR from a rifle. That could make it nice for hunting small game and maybe certain kinds of plinking.



    Don't agree with this, as far as the CCI 30 grain, .22 mag cartridge is concerned. Common High Speed .22 LR ammo, from a 18" rifle barrel, is 1275 fps max. The 30 grain CCI .22 mag from a pistol is 1500+ fps. I have shot some bunnies with it. Works way better than .22 LR.


    Well, .22 magnum from a pistol gives a nice loud "pop" and a really bright muzzle flash, so I can why it might seem more impressive than a .22LR, but I don't think close examination of the ballistics bears this out.

    If you want to do a fair comparison here between the two platforms, you really need to compare velocities between the two using similar weight bullets.

    EG, comparing 30 grain .22 magnum against "ordinary" 36 grain high velocity .22LR, isn't quite "fair" since the .22 magnum gets an extra 20% "boost" right off the top from the lighter bullet!

    Premium "hypervelocity" 30 grain .22LR certainly can get you 1600+ fps from a rifle. IMO if you're comparing against 30 grain .22 magnum that's the appropriate comparison. EG, the premium .22LR still costs (or once upon a time used to cost when you could get it) less than .22 magnum.

    CCI Stinger .22LR uses a 32 grain bullet and is reported at 1640 fps from a rifle. That's directly comparable to the 30 grain bullet performance you're describing with your pistol, and I think most people think this round is fantastic on small game. The 30 grain Aguila "Supermax" reportedly gets 1700+ fps from a rifle, though I don't know if Aguila still makes that one.

    PMR-30 is widely reported to get 1200 fps with "ordinary" 40 grain .22 magnum ammo.

    The best of the .22LR is roughly comparable to that from a rifle. EG, CCI velocitor uses a 40 grain bullet and yields about 1240 fps from a rifle. The 40 grain Aguila "Interceptor" is reported at 1470 fps. The 40 Federal "Lightning" gets 1260 fps, again, fairly comparable to (or better than) chronographed velocities of .22 magnum from the PMR-30.

    You can look them up (or measure them) yourself, if you like, but reported chronographed velocities of the PMR-30 are roughly as follows. This is from one of the Kel Tec boards, the board manager posted it from actual chronograph data:

    quote:http://www.thektog.org/forum/f90/kel-tec-pmr-30-velocity-measurements-faq-212912/

    PMR-30 with Stock 4.3" Barrel:
    Avg - Max - Min - Ammo
    1308 - 1387 - 1211 - 30gr Winchester Supreme (HP)
    1230 - 1280 - 1170 - 40gr Winchester Super X (JHP)
    1101 - 1138 - 1065 - 45gr Winchester Dynapoint (HP)
    1319 - 1393 - 1265 - 33gr Remington Premier Magnum (poly Tipped)
    1116 - 1171 - 1065 - 40gr CCI Maxi-Mag (FMJ)


    Bottom line, I stand by what I wrote above. .22 magnum from this pistol using the stock barrel performs almost identically to .22LR from a rifle. Not saying that's good or bad. . .that depends on what exactly you're trying to do. . .that's just how it is.

    You'll improve velocities a bit using a 5" bbl to the point where ballistics will exceed those of a .22LR, at least by a little bit. Theoretically f Kel Tec were to make an even longer barrel, you could do better yet, but so far as I know it doesn't and isn't going to.
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    rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
    quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
    quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
    Ballistics of .22magnum from this pistol are similar to .22LR from a rifle. That could make it nice for hunting small game and maybe certain kinds of plinking.



    Don't agree with this, as far as the CCI 30 grain, .22 mag cartridge is concerned. Common High Speed .22 LR ammo, from a 18" rifle barrel, is 1275 fps max. The 30 grain CCI .22 mag from a pistol is 1500+ fps. I have shot some bunnies with it. Works way better than .22 LR.


    Well, .22 magnum from a pistol gives a nice loud "pop" and a really bright muzzle flash, so I can why it might seem more impressive than a .22LR, but I don't think close examination of the ballistics bears this out.

    If you want to do a fair comparison here between the two platforms, you really need to compare velocities between the two using similar weight bullets.

    EG, comparing 30 grain .22 magnum against "ordinary" 36 grain high velocity .22LR, isn't quite "fair" since the .22 magnum gets an extra 20% "boost" right off the top from the lighter bullet!

    Premium "hypervelocity" 30 grain .22LR certainly can get you 1600+ fps from a rifle. IMO if you're comparing against 30 grain .22 magnum that's the appropriate comparison. EG, the premium .22LR still costs (or once upon a time used to cost when you could get it) less than .22 magnum.

    CCI Stinger .22LR uses a 32 grain bullet and is reported at 1640 fps from a rifle. That's directly comparable to the 30 grain bullet performance you're describing with your pistol, and I think most people think this round is fantastic on small game. The 30 grain Aguila "Supermax" reportedly gets 1700+ fps from a rifle, though I don't know if Aguila still makes that one.

    PMR-30 is widely reported to get 1200 fps with "ordinary" 40 grain .22 magnum ammo.

    The best of the .22LR is roughly comparable to that from a rifle. EG, CCI velocitor uses a 40 grain bullet and yields about 1240 fps from a rifle. The 40 grain Aguila "Interceptor" is reported at 1470 fps. The 40 Federal "Lightning" gets 1260 fps, again, fairly comparable to (or better than) chronographed velocities of .22 magnum from the PMR-30.

    You can look them up (or measure them) yourself, if you like, but reported chronographed velocities of the PMR-30 are roughly as follows. This is from one of the Kel Tec boards, the board manager posted it from actual chronograph data:

    quote:http://www.thektog.org/forum/f90/kel-tec-pmr-30-velocity-measurements-faq-212912/

    PMR-30 with Stock 4.3" Barrel:
    Avg - Max - Min - Ammo
    1308 - 1387 - 1211 - 30gr Winchester Supreme (HP)
    1230 - 1280 - 1170 - 40gr Winchester Super X (JHP)
    1101 - 1138 - 1065 - 45gr Winchester Dynapoint (HP)
    1319 - 1393 - 1265 - 33gr Remington Premier Magnum (poly Tipped)
    1116 - 1171 - 1065 - 40gr CCI Maxi-Mag (FMJ)


    Bottom line, I stand by what I wrote above. .22 magnum from this pistol using the stock barrel performs almost identically to .22LR from a rifle. Not saying that's good or bad. . .that depends on what exactly you're trying to do. . .that's just how it is.

    You'll improve velocities a bit using a 5" bbl to the point where ballistics will exceed those of a .22LR, at least by a little bit. Theoretically f Kel Tec were to make an even longer barrel, you could do better yet, but so far as I know it doesn't and isn't going to.










    You can spin it any way you want to, don't matter to me. The CCI 30 grain JHP, clocks at 1500+ FPS from the PMR 30. That is a higher velocity than the 22 LR from a 18 barrel. It does a substantially better job on bunnies. Than my old load of Winchester 555's, from a Buckmark @ 1040 FPS.
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    beantownshootahbeantownshootah Member Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Rufe_snow:
    You can spin it any way you want to, don't matter to me. The CCI 30 grain JHP, clocks at 1500+ FPS from the PMR 30. That is a higher velocity than the 22 LR from a 18 barrel.
    Really, this is not "spin". With 30 grain bullets, its more than possible to consistently exceed 1500 fps with an "ordinary". 22LR rifle with the "hypervelocity" ammo, and you really don't have to take my word for it.

    Here's a guy getting about 1450 fps with 32 grain CCI Stingers from an 18" bbl rifle (ie 96%+ of your 1500 fps). That's the SLOWEST chronograph video I could find of this type of ammo from a rifle. Watch the chrono with your own eyes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OSEQkUEozs

    Here's another one. This guy gets between 1447 and 1515 fps with CCI Stingers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WzKHRynKMI

    Unfortunately, this next video shows the target, not the chrono, but he does a comprehensive test of many types of .22LR though an AR-15 .22 conversion upper and a chrono. Getting to the point, the Stinger clocks in consistently at about 1580fps, and the Aguila Supermax at about 1640 fps. You can click to a link in the video for a chart with all data from the test (including group size, velocity of EACH shot, etc):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNe-gBgNULM&list=PL482E99349E36ED6F&index=2

    Here's another one where you can see the chrono numbers; Its only one shot (about 5:35 in the video) so its not much of an "average", but the CCI Stinger yields 1555 fps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlaVqQzUTLk

    I could also give you links to half a dozen other published third party sources with chronograph results of Stinger and similar ammo between 1500-1600 fps from rifles., but for brevity I'll just give a few more that also show comparisons with other types of ammo:

    This guy chronographed 1595 fps CCI Stinger and 1589 fps for Aguila Supermax ammo though a rifle: http://lofigunandgame.com/the-venerable-22-lr-vs-gelatin-part-ii-standard-and-high-velocity-rounds/

    Here's a test with chronographed 1525fps with CCI Stinger through a Ruger 10-22 (which, by the way, the manufacturer explicitly says NOT to fire Stinger ammo through!): http://stevespages.com/page8f22rf.html Note that the 30 grain .22 magnum through a RIFLE yields nearly 2300 fps in this test!


    Here is a lengthy (and relevant) discussion about .22 magnum pistol vs. hypervelocity type .22LR from a rifle, including multiple reported chronograph results from multiple shooters using multiple ammos in multiple platforms, including Kel Tec PMR-30 using the 30 grain Gold dots (reported at an average velocity of 1560 fps):

    http://tinyurl.com/m3bztor

    Obviously, exact results are going to vary based on which model gun, barrel length, ambient temp, distance of chrono from muzzle, and other factors, but I think the point has been made here. There are so many reported chrono results of Stingers and other similar types of "hypervelocity" ammo at over 1500 fps from rifles (in many cases WAY over), that I'd consider it to be the norm with that type of ammo.

    None of this means the "max" ammo is *better* than .22 magnum from a pistol. . .or worse. That really depends on what you're trying to do. But I think because a lot of people have experience with CCI Stingers and similar "hypervelocity" .22LR from ordinary rifles, its a good basis for comparison, that's all.

    quote:It [.22 magnum] does a substantially better job on bunnies. Than my old load of Winchester 555's, from a Buckmark @ 1040 FPS. Are the bunnies hit with the .22 magnum more dead? [;)]

    OK, seriously, I would hope premium 22 magnum significantly outperforms bulk-pack promotional (or indeed ANY) .22LR from similar pistols! Otherwise what would be the point of a .22 magnum pistol?
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