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Odd Japan made SxS MLUE BIRD

djh860djh860 Member Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭
edited February 2015 in Ask the Experts
I picked this up for $350. Both hammers seem to work. It's my winter project to restore the gun. Can anyone guess or explain anything about this gun to me? I have never seem makers marks like this . Also what is the white stuff in the engraving and how can I remove it? BTW I polished this with Wenol which is totally amazing stuff.
This is a link to more Pic's. http://s831.photobucket.com/user/killoyz/mlue bird/story
Thanks

DSCN0598_zps2483fe7a.jpg
DSCN0603_zpsc3f55566.jpg

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    perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    This looks like a one off shot gun as most company made guns will be roll stamped as to who made them. your pictures show a shot gun that every letter was cut instead of stamped.NOT HAND STAMPED I would be surprised if anyone could really tell you much about your shotgun . I don't think the person that did make it had a good understanding of the english language MLUE BIRD [?][?][?][?][?][?][?] white powder is from dried up silver polish someone before you tried to clean the gun
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    rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    After the end of World War II. U.S. forces occupied Japan for 6 years. Until the peace treaty was signed in the early 50's. during the Korean War.

    My guess is that your shotgun was custom/handmade for a G.I., during that timeframe. Circa 1945/55?

    If none of our folks are able to shed any more light on your questions. Your might post to a shotgun specific forum. It been a long time, so I don't know if they are still active? Try GOOGLEing, "Shotgun World" and/or "Double Gun Journal".
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    rsnyder55rsnyder55 Member Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Chiba is a city and prefecture in Japan. Doing a search of the internet showed several of these sidelock shotguns with the MLUE BIRD name have been sold in the US and in the UK.
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    nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,881 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Perry Shooter could be right about the silver polish. That would explain why the polished blue area of the barrels is so dull. (We would never use an abrasive like silver polish on a gun.)

    My guess was that the white stuff was grease pencil or a lacquer stick. In any case, you can probably remove the white by rubbing with a nylon toothbrush & a solvent such as acetone or MEK.

    I suspect that the legend was supposed to read "BLUE BIRD". That kind of error is more typical of Hindu Kush knockoffs. If it were mine, I would not shoot it until a competent gunsmith declared it "safe to shoot".

    Neal

    EDIT: Yes, I think we are all in agreement that the markings are hand engraved (another indication that this is a handmade gun from the Kush). Men in these "gun shops" have been making guns, often assembling parts, for hundreds of years. When they get a modern sporting long gun, they take it apart & duplicate all the parts & make one or more copies. They do the best that they can to duplicate markings, but they don't read English. Actually, they are illiterate; most speak only Dari, Urdu or Pashtu. If it takes 6 weeks to make a shotgun like yours & it sells for $200 to a tourist, the shop owner probably takes his family out to dinner at the Afghan version of Ruth's Chris'. Even if they got a Purdey made in London, their version would look just as crude. These guys do a remarkable job considering what they have to work with, but you probably don't want to stake your vision or your life on their knowledge of metallurgy.
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    rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nmyers
    Perry Shooter could be right about the silver polish. That would explain why the polished blue area of the barrels is so dull. (We would never use an abrasive like silver polish on a gun.)

    My guess was that the white stuff was grease pencil or a lacquer stick. In any case, you can probably remove the white by rubbing with a nylon toothbrush & a solvent such as acetone or MEK.

    I suspect that the legend was supposed to read "BLUE BIRD". That kind of error is more typical of Hindu Kush knockoffs. If it were mine, I would not shoot it until a competent gunsmith declared it "safe to shoot".

    Neal



    Very good point Neal. I never thought about that. The hand stamped markings, and fractured English. Not likely, that even a Japanese gunsmith in the 50's would do. I definitely could see it coming out of Darra Pakistan or India.
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    golferboy426golferboy426 Member Posts: 969 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    looks like a steal to me, a full sidelock for 350
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    Bill DeShivsBill DeShivs Member Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It's not hand stamped, it's hand engraved. Nothing on the gun is stamped.
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    Manoa-FishermanManoa-Fisherman Member Posts: 190 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The last photo has the stamped wording, "CHIBA JUHOTEN MADE IN JAPAN". Any product made in Japan right after the war was marked "Made in Occupied Japan". Early in the 1950s, "Made in Japan" was used again to meet export requirements.

    As stated previously, Chiba is a province and city in Japan. "Juhoten" translates roughly to "gun shop/store". I doubt that someone in India would go through the effort to mark the shotgun to that extent, since copies of Japanese firearms were not in any demand. If any thing, the knockoffs would be of some well know European or American manufacturer, rather than any Japanese.
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    djh860djh860 Member Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I can't find that translation. I think it is a family name. Also it not stamped in is engraved.


    quote:Originally posted by Manoa-Fisherman
    The last photo has the stamped wording, "CHIBA JUHOTEN MADE IN JAPAN". Any product made in Japan right after the war was marked "Made in Occupied Japan". Early in the 1950s, "Made in Japan" was used again to meet export requirements.

    As stated previously, Chiba is a province and city in Japan. "Juhoten" translates roughly to "gun shop/store". I doubt that someone in India would go through the effort to mark the shotgun to that extent, since copies of Japanese firearms were not in any demand. If any thing, the knockoffs would be of some well know European or American manufacturer, rather than any Japanese.
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    Manoa-FishermanManoa-Fisherman Member Posts: 190 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by djh860
    I can't find that translation. I think it is a family name. Also it not stamped in is engraved.

    "Juho" is gun in Japanese. The suffix "ten" is used to designate a shop or store. Chiba is not a family name under most circumstances in Japan. Some people may think so because there was a Japanese movie star called "Sonny Chiba", but that was just a stage name. His family name was Maeda.
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