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Two old muzzleloaders, Danzig and Unknown

jhauschjhausch Member Posts: 8 ✭✭
edited March 2015 in Ask the Experts
Just getting around to snapping some pictures of this for my will. These have been in the family a long time, but I have no idea what they are worth. Any thoughts? Let me know if you need more pics. Neither have the ramrod.

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I also have this old tiny single shot that my dad tells me he won selling subscriptions or something similar back in grade school (this would be in NW OH in the 40's, boy have times changed...)

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    rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Danzig was a Prussian State Arsenal. It appears to be originally made as a flintlock, than later converted to percussion. After Prussia adopted the breech loading needle gun, many of their older guns in storage were sold as surplus.

    It might have been sold to the Union during the American Civil War? Or sold by Bannerman or Sears, as late as the 20th Century. Many of the surplus flintlock muskets, never even had rifled barrels. So they easily could have been sold as inexpensive percussion shotguns.





    EDIT #1,

    I don't know about the other 2? But the Danzig is just a wallhanger. Has very little value, in it's present condition. Not worth putting any money in. For restoration.

    If it was a original Prussian musket. In very good condition. With a substantiated, American Civil War provenance. It would be quite valuable on the other hand.
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    charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 6,579 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rifle 2 could be a Hawken.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawken_rifle.

    A hands on evaluation/appraisal is your best bet for insurance purposes.

    added Check with your local gunsmith/shop, ask around at the shooting range, maybe even your insurance agent.

    Restoration is usually a loosing money proposition. Cleaning them up is iffy. You could ruin a lot of any collector value by doing it wrong.
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    jhauschjhausch Member Posts: 8 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks, guys. Where is a good place to get hands-on appraisals? Also, how about a good place to have them restored (if that's even a good idea)?
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    He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,068 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
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    cbyerlycbyerly Member Posts: 689 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rifle #2 is an Ohio style sporting rifle. They usually have a name on the lock or barrel. It is late percussion era gun.
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    jhauschjhausch Member Posts: 8 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by cbyerly
    Rifle #2 is an Ohio style sporting rifle. They usually have a name on the lock or barrel. It is late percussion era gun.


    There is a J.B. stamped on the top of the barrel of rifle #2
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    jhauschjhausch Member Posts: 8 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by He Dog
    Some easy info on the Hamilton #27 Boys Rifle:

    http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/HAMILTON/HAMILTON 27.htm


    Great read. Thanks. It says production stopped in 1930. That would mean that either my dad's memory is incorrect or it was a donated prize and used when he got it. I'll inspect it more closely, too.
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    jhauschjhausch Member Posts: 8 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Originally posted by rufe-snow




    EDIT #1,

    I don't know about the other 2? But the Danzig is just a wallhanger. Has very little value, in it's present condition. Not worth putting any money in. For restoration.

    If it was a original Prussian musket. In very good condition. With a substantiated, American Civil War provenance. It would be quite valuable on the other hand.

    That's really what I've been thinking about all three, just a nice wall display. I don't want to ruin them with a resto or clean up, but would like it if they were a little prettier.
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    jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    The Danzig is what is colloquially known as a potsdam musket. They were originally flint and converted. Yours is in so so condition, appears to have had the muzzle cut down, and is missing the cleaning rod. As such I'd say it's worth perhaps $200-$300, as I've seen cut down Potsdams go for around that.

    Lots of guys in the N-SSA shoot them in fact, as do I.
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    jhauschjhausch Member Posts: 8 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks, all. I guess this will be the last message in this thread (#10). I don't think I need to continue with a part II, but if someone disagrees, just drop me an email and I'll start a part II.

    Based on what I learned here, I think I'll make some sort of locking style wall rack and plan on displaying them in my office or man-cave.

    If anyone knows of a reputable gun-smith in WI for an appraisal and restoration discussion (someone with more experience on the antique side of things), please let me know by email. I am located in the middle of a triangle formed by Milwaukee, Madison, and Fond du Lac and have no issues travelling anywhere from Green Bay to Beloit to meet up with the right person.

    I did get more info on the history behind this Hamilton (slightly edited for anonymity)

    From my Dad:

    "I found it in your half-sisters' maternal great-grandfather's wood shed in St. Joseph, MO. The story behind it was if you sold door to door enough of the single packet flower/garden seeds that you could receive the 22 single shot rifle for free."

    Thanks again, everyone.
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    nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,881 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Let me suggest that you have a professional photographer take pictures of your guns. (Most have "studio" experience.) That way, you can send the photos to possible restorers all over the country, without having to take a road trip that will likely be a waste of time.

    Or, if you don't mind taking a plane, the largest antique gun show in the country is scheduled this month:
    http://baltimoreshow.com/
    You can show them to experts from all over the US without leaving the building.

    Neal
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    jhauschjhausch Member Posts: 8 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nmyers
    Let me suggest that you have a professional photographer take pictures of your guns. (Most have "studio" experience.) That way, you can send the photos to possible restorers all over the country, without having to take a road trip that will likely be a waste of time.

    Or, if you don't mind taking a plane, the largest antique gun show in the country is scheduled this month:
    http://baltimoreshow.com/
    You can show them to experts from all over the US without leaving the building.

    Neal


    The photos are pretty bad. If I did email around, I'd do better. Great point.

    As to locating a trusted restorer, I suppose I can Google "Antique Firearm Restoration", but recommendations would be nice.
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    hrfhrf Member Posts: 857 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Cost of professional restoration will exceed their worth and lower collector value!!

    Wipe them down with an oily piece of burlap or other rough fabric and hang them up.

    The halfstock percussion rifle is a utility grade example, nothing special. Buy a dowel rod and stain it lightly to "age" it and make a replacement ramrod for better display.

    But before you shorten the dowel if needed, measure down the bores of it and the Danzig: Old muzzleloaders are sometimes found still loaded after 150 years or so!
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