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NFA Questions

nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,009 ******
edited July 2010 in Ask the Experts
Friends uncle died last week, he was going thru his gunsafe (lots of goodies) and found 4 sets of paperwork for registered auto sears. I'm assuming these are the form-4 tax stamps, they have a CLEO signature, etc. on them (haven't seen them myself, but wouldn't know what they are anyway)

So the question is - guy is dead. They were not owned by a LLC, and his wife's name isn't on any of the paperwork. The sears were not present in the safe, but it is believed that they are in a safe deposit box. Which the wife is not listed on... so the whole thing is going thru probate, etc. (he didn't have a will either)

The question - what is the legal status of the sears at the moment? What will the widow need to go thru to sell the sears after probate, etc. is done?

FWIW, I'm trying to find a NFA dealer in the Ocala, Fl. area as well to send the family to after everything is settled to handle the sale - if you know of a good one, please let me know.

Thanks!
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    nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,009 ******
    edited November -1
    Our PD has a group of M16 rifles we got from the DOD a few years ago. The rifles were free, and transferred directly to us from the DOD with all applicable paperwork filed.

    We needed to make super-short SBRs out of a few of them. They ended up looking like an AR pistol with a collapsible stock. Prior to doing so, our armorer filed paperwork with the BAT-men, requesting permission to manufacture a SBR.

    I was thinking, "Why? It was already registered as a full-auto. What difference does a shorter barrel make?"

    All the M16s have semi-auto selector switches installed, but that doesn't change their legal status as full-auto rifles. It just seems to me that, no matter what you do to it, install a short barrel, remove the stock, or convert it to a single shot muzzle-loader, it is still a full-auto because that's how it started out.
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    rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Run it by NWCID he is our all knowing guru on all NFA stuff. See link.

    http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=365687
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    iwannausernameiwannausername Member Posts: 7,131
    edited November -1
    NWICD made a statement a while back about how full auto trumps other NFA things, assuming that the item can't be removed and used on a non-registered-full-auto device.

    I would think that since an AR/M16 upper can be removed and used elsewhere, it would have to be registered in some fashion - or maybe not since it is for LEO use.
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    select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,453 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The receiver is what is registered. Unless somehow the sears were installed in these and registered ( which I doubt ). Making the guns with say 10" barrels doesn't change registration of that firearm. BATF just needs notified it is being done cause barrel length is on the registration form. If they send paperwork back of such that now the gun have 10" barrels, keep that paperwork with the other registered documents.
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    cpermdcpermd Member Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Your armorer is not very well informed.

    CP
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    NwcidNwcid Member Posts: 10,674 ✭
    edited November -1
    Correct, FA trumps all. There is no set or required length on a FA gun.

    There is one "exception" to that. The ATF "requests" that any PERMANENT change to the firearm be forwarded to the ATF so their records stay correct. You do not need permission to change barrel length on FA. Many guys have several barrels/uppers for one gun. Most folks say that you should have at least one upper fitting the barrel length listed on your paperwork.
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    TxsTxs Member Posts: 18,801
    edited November -1
    Could be that - to be on the safe side - he contacted BATFE about this barrel swap and the agent he spoke with told him this had to be done. Some of them don't seem to be terribly well informed either.

    I'd think the BATFE wouldn't need to be involved in anything involving these guns because under that federal LE assistance program these items actually remain the property of the US military. They're just temporarily assigned to LE agencies.

    One way or another, it seems that it would make no difference whether the guns carry that extra SBR paperwork or not. They're completely non-transferable except back into military hands.

    nmyers - I'm familiar with this program. The military has no problem with the receiving agency altering these guns, as long as all original parts are retained and they can be returned to their as-issued configuration.
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    nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,880 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My understanding is that all M16's were loaned to LEA's, & remain the property of DOD. They must be returned to DOD eventually; I don't know if they will have a problem with your altering them.

    Mark probably knows for sure.

    Neal
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    cpermdcpermd Member Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    DOD has no problem w PDs alering the M16s.
    Ours are now running 11.5" barrels.
    The M14s on loan are now in Sage stocks.

    CP
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    nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,009 ******
    edited November -1
    So, if we don't actually own the guns, and if we keep the parts so that we can return them to original configuration for return to the DOD, why even get the BAT-men involved?
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    TxsTxs Member Posts: 18,801
    edited November -1
    That was my earlier point.

    I wouldn't be surprised to learn that when contacted for clarification the agent who answered the phone told him this paperwork was required.

    You know how it goes. Ask three BATFE agents the same legal/technical question and don't be surpised if you get four different answers. [:D]
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    select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,453 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nunn
    So, if we don't actually own the guns, and if we keep the parts so that we can return them to original configuration for return to the DOD, why even get the BAT-men involved?


    [:)] You know barrels burn out. Just replace it with your liking.
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