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Federal Protect-O Gas Gun Pen
Mullen Coins
Member Posts: 25 ✭
Here's an image of a vintage Federal Protect-O gas gun patent 1925. In original box, unused and in excellent condition. Couple questions... are these legal to sell today and does anyone know the value of such an item.
Comments
They essentially shoot a blank cartridge that propels a small amount of tear gas out of them. They were marketed and sold mostly to police agencies. To attempt to fire real ammunition (if one could fit a round in) would result in them blowing up as it is not designed to handle the pressures created by bullet-loaded ammunition.
I believe there may be some made by Federal Laboratories that were designed to fire real ammunition -- these would be real "pen guns" and would need to be (already) registered with the ATF as an AOW. You need to determine if yours is designed to fire bullets to determine legality. (Might try reading those instructions; I believe they will warn against trying to use any live round if it is designed for tear-gas only. The bore will also be smooth, and the "chamber" will be a "thread-in" cartridge design. A bullet-loaded 22 or 38 round simply can't be loaded.)
As for value of the tear-gas only ones: I don't think there is much collector interest in them. My very rough "guesstimate" would be the $150-$200 range depending on condition. I'd expect if you had some tear-gas "rounds" for it, they'd be desirable to collectors.
As it was made of very thin sheet metal. It would have self destructed if fired with ball ammo.
Being that your Federal labs pen gun was made much earlier then the 60's. It to would have used a conventional cartridge, as a container for the tear gas.
http://www.GunBroker.com/All/Completed/BCI.aspx?Keywords=*tear+gas+pen&Timeframe=1
Here's some old one that sold [^]
http://www.GunBroker.com/All/Completed/BCI.aspx?
If the pen gun will chamber conventional ammunition, the gun is an NFA item. If it is not already registered, it is illegal contraband.
No. It is not as simple as "being able to chamber" a round of conventional ammunition.
Many blank-firing guns can "chamber" a round of conventional ammunition, but will blow up if one tried to fire that round as they are not designed to have bullets travel down their barrel nor handle the pressures created with conventional (bullet-loaded) ammunition.
If the rules "defining a firearm" were as simple as "anything that will chamber a round of ammunition is a firearm" billions of pieces of conventional pipe would be "illegal firearms."
If that pen-gun of the OP is not designed to fire a round of conventional ammunition, and is designed to only fire "tear gas cartridges," it is not a firearm, even if one can find a conventional (bullet-loaded) round of ammunition that one could fit into the camber.
They say that any disguised weapon made or remade to accept conventional ammunition, even if the device destroys itself, is an NFA weapon. Not to mention the unrifled barrel.
Perhaps you should competently read and comprehend the regulations before giving advice that could get someone a felony charge.
Incompetent one- ATF disagrees with you.
They say that any disguised weapon made or remade to accept conventional ammunition, even if the device destroys itself, is an NFA weapon. Not to mention the unrifled barrel.
Perhaps you should competently read and comprehend the regulations before giving advice that could get someone a felony charge.
No, it is not about just "accepting" ammunition. Straight from the ATF's site:
Any tear gas device capable of chambering and firing any self-contained cartridge. Even though the device may destroy itself in firing, it is still a firearm under the National Firearms Act.
[emphasis added]
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-guide-identification-firearms-section-10
If you chambered a .38 round in a Federal Protect-O-Gas pen designed for tear-gas only, and it "blew-up" in your hands and the bullet was not fired from the device, it won't be a firearm under NFA definitions.
The criteria making it an NFA item is that it chambers and fires the round. If it is just like blank guns, and it is not designed to withstand the pressures needed to propel the mass of a bullet and won't do such if you tried to load it with conventional ammunition, it won't be any sort of firearm at all.
If the gun fires, it fires. There's not much other way to interpret it.
It's amazing how far you are attempting to stretch this to be right.
If the gun fires, it fires. There's not much other way to interpret it.
A cartridge case exploding inside -- and ripping open -- a thin sheet metal tube with no practical movement of the bullet from the case (because the tube was not designed to build the pressures needed to move a bullet) is not a "gun firing." By the legal definition, such a tube, even though one can fit a round of ammunition in it, is not even "a gun."
All the name calling and blanket denials do not change the facts.
You still didn't cover the smooth bore. Take the firing pin out of an illegal short barrel shotgun and then tell ATF it's legal because the gun won't fire. They'll "splain" it to you a little differently.
Your ridiculously erroneous posts could get someone in serious trouble, and it's very irresponsible to post falsehoods on a site like this.
ATF doesn't care if your pen gun blows up, your machinegun jams, or your sawed off shotgun blows up because you used a pipe cutter on the barrel. All are under the purview of the NFA.
You still didn't cover the smooth bore. Take the firing pin out of an illegal short barrel shotgun and then tell ATF it's legal because the gun won't fire. They'll "splain" it to you a little differently.
Your ridiculously erroneous posts could get someone in serious trouble, and it's very irresponsible to post falsehoods on a site like this.
I see your reading comprehension skills are exceedingly poor.
I expect my explanations given above make it clear for the original poster, or others who may be reading.
To recap: If an item does not even meet the definition of "a firearm" (as is the case with most tear-gas pens) it cannot be an "NFA firearm."
Machineguns and sawed-off shotguns are firearms, so aside from the very specific rules the ATF has regarding the destruction of them, they will remain firearms -- and NFA items -- no matter what condition they are in, functioning or not.