Timing of a new ratchet and hand

WMClark

I have a couple of revolvers from my uncles estate that he apparently intended on replacing the cylinder, ratchet and hand on. One is a Colt Detective special and the other a K frame S&W. The replacement parts are new and will need to be timed.

Could any one point me in the right direction to a in depth book with details covering the timing of these replacement parts?

Herschel

I tried to replace the hand on a Colt .357 and found it more difficult than I expected. If the parts need replacing I would seek out a gunsmith who was experienced in revolvers.

gruntled

I bought what I expected would be a drop in replacement for a .44 black powder revolver. NOPE. It would require a great deal of filing & the price I have been getting is more than I paid for the revolver.
Guess I will just have to turn it by hand.

chris8X57

On the K-frame, here are some key points to remember;
- A unfitted ratchet will have to be faced off for case rim headspace. That also controls the relationship of barrel/cylinder gap and fore and aft play on the crane.
- The oversized ratchet pads are filed using a safe edge needle file-this is done CAREFULLY, keeping the file flat and checking constantly.
- Hands come in sizes from .093" to .098" oversize size. Start with a .093 size hand if the window is not oversize.
-If you have to use an oversize hand, then opening the window will have to be done. File ONLY on the inside surface (closest to the cylinder pin hole)
-New pads and hands will advance the timing, and if the cylinder stop catches, then usually a new stop is in order, or a replacement trigger with a thicker nose.

I don't recommend this for the novice or amateur gunsmith. I did PPC revolver work for a lot of years.[;)]

Aztngundoc22

OK :

One word : GUNSMITH !!!

Thanks !!!

M1A762

quote:Originally posted by chris8X57
On the K-frame, here are some key points to remember;
- A unfitted ratchet will have to be faced off for case rim headspace. That also controls the relationship of barrel/cylinder gap and fore and aft play on the crane.
- The oversized ratchet pads are filed using a safe edge needle file-this is done CAREFULLY, keeping the file flat and checking constantly.
- Hands come in sizes from .093" to .098" oversize size. Start with a .093 size hand if the window is not oversize.
-If you have to use an oversize hand, then opening the window will have to be done. File ONLY on the inside surface (closest to the cylinder pin hole)
-New pads and hands will advance the timing, and if the cylinder stop catches, then usually a new stop is in order, or a replacement trigger with a thicker nose.

I don't recommend this for the novice or amateur gunsmith. I did PPC revolver work for a lot of years.[;)]




I don't agree with filing the window for the hand, I would much rather fit the cheaper part - the over sized hand. I wonder how many S&W frames have been ruined with window files? I do agree that this work is not for beginners![:)]

chris8X57

quote:Originally posted by M1A762
quote:Originally posted by chris8X57
On the K-frame, here are some key points to remember;
- A unfitted ratchet will have to be faced off for case rim headspace. That also controls the relationship of barrel/cylinder gap and fore and aft play on the crane.
- The oversized ratchet pads are filed using a safe edge needle file-this is done CAREFULLY, keeping the file flat and checking constantly.
- Hands come in sizes from .093" to .098" oversize size. Start with a .093 size hand if the window is not oversize.
-If you have to use an oversize hand, then opening the window will have to be done. File ONLY on the inside surface (closest to the cylinder pin hole)
-New pads and hands will advance the timing, and if the cylinder stop catches, then usually a new stop is in order, or a replacement trigger with a thicker nose.

I don't recommend this for the novice or amateur gunsmith. I did PPC revolver work for a lot of years.[;)]




I don't agree with filing the window for the hand, I would much rather fit the cheaper part - the over sized hand. I wonder how many S&W frames have been ruined with window files? I do agree that this work is not for beginners![:)]


I agree Sir.
Filing a window is only done if an oversize hand is required and does not fit the window. It should only be done as a last measure and only on the inside window, and I should have noted that. It can ruin a frame if not done correctly.
Over the years I saw many crude fixes for timing problems. This work should really only be done by someone trained to do it properly.

dfletcher

Not to minimize the work involved on a Smith revolver, but there is a greater degree of difficulty involved fitting an internal on a Colt D frame. Colt's have a much greater degree of interdependence, meaning fitting a new hand may influence the cylinder to move before the cylinder bolt drops causing hesitation, and even the SA trigger pull can be affected.

The ideal fitting of a new Colt hand will cause you to feel an ever so slight "rub" in your thumb when the hammer is lowered off full cock. That means the cylinder is locking up (the hand rides in the trigger) just as the trigger is pressed, causing the SA sear to just barely clear the SA notch.

Were I to dive in as a novice I'd work on the Smith first. Using a single stage hand it may be a bit easier to fit, much of the lift and lock up control is accomplished by the cylinder ratchet teeth. The Colt is a two stage, the leading edge of the hand and the lower, which provides final lock up, each have to be properly fitted.

On each you'll need to pay attention to the cylinder bolt drop and release.

Buy spares of each hand. Numrich Arms has aftermarket Colt hands. They're less expensive than factory. If you get it right the 1st time the part will last a long time. If you make a mistake, best to do it on the lower cost part. IIRC Numrich sells used hands too. They may work fine, could be too worn. But you'll see the work required to make them fit.