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Why is there a hammer spur on a DA only Colt ?

zvettezvette Member Posts: 118
edited May 2017 in Ask the Experts
My wife's favorite firearm is a older Colt Agent 38 Special 6 round Revolver with I think a 2.5" barrel. She keeps it loaded with low recoil Wadcutters alternating with Federal "hydrashock" rounds.

It is a nice little revolver and as you would expect not real accurate past about 10 yards, (or hard to shoot accurately at any rate). Which is fine for what it is.

What I don't get is that other than aesthetics what is the purpose of the hammer spur since it fires double action only ?

I did try searching for an answer and all I could find is references to folks getting rid of the hammer spur on their DA revolvers.

Comments

  • Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 39,309 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    Sometimes revolvers leave the factory in DA/SA condition, only to be converted to DAO somewhere down the line. Could this be the case with your revolver?
  • zvettezvette Member Posts: 118
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
    Sometimes revolvers leave the factory in DA/SA condition, only to be converted to DAO somewhere down the line. Could this be the case with your revolver?


    Well that is interesting. We have only shot about 60 rounds through it, and it "looks" brand new. It belonged to my dad and it is very doubtful that he would have modified it to DA only, but certainly someone could have. According to this the Agent and Detective were DA/SA, so that would certainly be the answer. http://www.*/review/colt-detective-special-38-review/

    As a side note, there seems to be differing "facts" regarding the early Colt Agent and Detective snub nose revolvers. Some say the Agent is better, others say the Detective is superior, and several sources say the Agent has an aluminum frame (not in our case, frame is marked Agent and is steel -correction barrel is marked agent). So, perhaps some were factory built as DAO.
  • rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,649 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by zvette
    quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
    Sometimes revolvers leave the factory in DA/SA condition, only to be converted to DAO somewhere down the line. Could this be the case with your revolver?


    Well that is interesting. We have only shot about 60 rounds through it, and it "looks" brand new. It belonged to my dad and it is very doubtful that he would have modified it to DA only, but certainly someone could have. According to this the Agent and Detective were DA/SA, so that would certainly be the answer. http://www.*/review/colt-detective-special-38-review/

    As a side note, there seems to be differing "facts" regarding the early Colt Agent and Detective snub nose revolvers. Some say the Agent is better, others say the Detective is superior, and several sources say the Agent has an aluminum frame (not in our case, frame is marked Agent and is steel). So, perhaps some were factory built as DAO.




    When LEO's were still using revolvers. Some departments mandated, that revolvers had to be reworked to be double action only. This was because, there were a number of "bad" shootings over the years.

    Likely your dad obtained it from a dealer. Who got it when the local badge boys, switched to automatics. In the 1980's there was a mass exodus, from revolvers to automatics by police departments. Most of the revolvers were S & W's, not Colts though.
  • charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 6,579 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Interesting. A factory letter might provide the answer or perhaps a Colt collector will chime with ore insight.

    With lots of practice using only one load, group size should improve. If the single action could be made to work again group size could really improve. With my 2" model 60 S&W 1 gallon milk jugs at 100 yards is easy enough.

    Sometimes bobbing the hammer results in erratic ignition due to less mass in motion. Stiffer spring could compensate. A long time ago I worked on and shot both the agent and detective. I bought the S&W.

    I prefer a steel frame over aluminum/plastic because I tend to shoot a lot.

    Back in the day they would make what you wanted for some extra $.

    added longer sight radius helps as does the added mass to dampen out your shakes, larger grip frame if you have bigger hands.

    I worry about hitting the target first, then how hard.

    You might consider reloading for it. Used Lyman 310 tools are common in 38 Special or a new Lee hand press kit is very reasonable. Cast bullets in 158 gr semi wad cutter with 3 gr of Bullseye is a very nice load. A pound of powder is about $20 and will load 2000 rounds. Primers are about $35 per thousand and your own cast bullets can be almost free.
  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,875 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Over the years, there have been many changes in the Colt snubbies. Without photos & serial number, we are like the 7 blind men describing an elephant.

    I would worry that the hammer is broken, or has had some alteration by a shade tree mechanic. I recommend that you have it inspected by a gunsmith.

    A well trained/experienced shooter should be able to keep most shots in the black at 50', firing a snubby single action. There is nothing wrong with keeping single action available "just in case".

    I'm not sure that I understand the logic of alternating ammo in the cylinder. Unless your wife has military or police experience, I would encourage her to keep all rounds the same, but that's just me.

    Neal
  • Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,365 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A steel framed Agent is probably from what I call the "parts cleanup" era. Colt was assembling whatever guns they could to stave off the latest round in their continuing financial crisis.

    A DA only Colt with hammer spur might:
    1. Have been intentionally set up DAO with the spur left on to give mass to the hammer or to be engaged by a holster retention strap or snap.
    2. Be broken.
  • zvettezvette Member Posts: 118
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nmyers
    Over the years, there have been many changes in the Colt snubbies. Without photos & serial number, we are like the 7 blind men describing an elephant.

    I would worry that the hammer is broken, or has had some alteration by a shade tree mechanic. I recommend that you have it inspected by a gunsmith.

    A well trained/experienced shooter should be able to keep most shots in the black at 50', firing a snubby single action. There is nothing wrong with keeping single action available "just in case".

    I'm not sure that I understand the logic of alternating ammo in the cylinder. Unless your wife has military or police experience, I would encourage her to keep all rounds the same, but that's just me.

    Neal


    When I look up the serial number on the Colt site I get this:

    1961 POLICE POSITIVE SPECIAL & DETECTIVE SPECIAL
    1950 OFFICIAL POLICE MODEL (CONTINUED ARMY SPECIAL SERIALS)
    1950 OFFICERS MODEL SPECIAL (FROM OFFICIAL POLICE MODEL SERIALS)

    It looks identical to the photo shown here as The Detective Special Second Issue (and has wood grips)
    http://www.coltfever.com/Detective_Special.html

    Here is another reference to the Agent having an aluminum frame.
    http://www.coltfever.com/Agent.html

    So it would be reasonable to say that it was likely a Detective Special (or variant) rebarreled with an Agent barrel. Counter to that are multiple posts on other forums with folks saying they have steel framed Colts with Agent barrels. One Colt expert said "we have learned to never say never".

    Regarding alternating rounds, you make a good point. Both my wife and I seem to get better groups shooting my 357 S&W revolver 6.5" with the wadcutters. Neither of us are experienced handgun shooters but are surprisingly accurate with the bigger revolver. I would say "accurate enough" for defense with the snub nose. Both of us prefer to shoot double action as it is extremely smooth with both revolvers.

    The Colt looks "as new" and the screw heads are perfect, so I don't think there was any shade tree work done on it, but certainly a good idea to have a gunsmith look at it since it appears to not be functioning as designed.
  • 62fuelie62fuelie Member Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    In "the old days" L.A.P.D. was one of the agencies that required all revolvers be "Neutered" by the department armory before being carried for duty, this would include those carried by plain-clothes personnel like detectives. The officers were permitted to carry personally owned revolvers for duty, as long as the had been rendered D.A. only. On the S&W this amounted to grinding away the S.A. cocking notch on the hammer, so replacing the hammer would restore it to D.A./S.A. condition. A gunsmith could easily check to see if a similar fix in possible with yours.
  • yoshmysteryoshmyster Member Posts: 20,979 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So you can hold down the trigger and then fan it. Also it's cheaper to just use what you got.
  • dfletcherdfletcher Member Posts: 8,162 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by zvette
    quote:Originally posted by nmyers
    Over the years, there have been many changes in the Colt snubbies. Without photos & serial number, we are like the 7 blind men describing an elephant.

    I would worry that the hammer is broken, or has had some alteration by a shade tree mechanic. I recommend that you have it inspected by a gunsmith.

    A well trained/experienced shooter should be able to keep most shots in the black at 50', firing a snubby single action. There is nothing wrong with keeping single action available "just in case".

    I'm not sure that I understand the logic of alternating ammo in the cylinder. Unless your wife has military or police experience, I would encourage her to keep all rounds the same, but that's just me.

    Neal


    When I look up the serial number on the Colt site I get this:

    1961 POLICE POSITIVE SPECIAL & DETECTIVE SPECIAL
    1950 OFFICIAL POLICE MODEL (CONTINUED ARMY SPECIAL SERIALS)
    1950 OFFICERS MODEL SPECIAL (FROM OFFICIAL POLICE MODEL SERIALS)

    It looks identical to the photo shown here as The Detective Special Second Issue (and has wood grips)
    http://www.coltfever.com/Detective_Special.html

    Here is another reference to the Agent having an aluminum frame.
    http://www.coltfever.com/Agent.html

    So it would be reasonable to say that it was likely a Detective Special (or variant) rebarreled with an Agent barrel. Counter to that are multiple posts on other forums with folks saying they have steel framed Colts with Agent barrels. One Colt expert said "we have learned to never say never".

    Regarding alternating rounds, you make a good point. Both my wife and I seem to get better groups shooting my 357 S&W revolver 6.5" with the wadcutters. Neither of us are experienced handgun shooters but are surprisingly accurate with the bigger revolver. I would say "accurate enough" for defense with the snub nose. Both of us prefer to shoot double action as it is extremely smooth with both revolvers.

    The Colt looks "as new" and the screw heads are perfect, so I don't think there was any shade tree work done on it, but certainly a good idea to have a gunsmith look at it since it appears to not be functioning as designed.



    The Colt Agent has an abbreviated grip frame. In 1966 it should be the same as the 1966 and later Detective Special and Cobra revolvers. On your link, note the early post war DS frame runs the entire length of the grips. In the 1966 and later version while the grips appear the same, the grip frame is shorter and the wood grips "wrap around" the bottom to meet. You can see that in the other photo.

    If your revolver has the "full length" but round butt grip frame and a steel frame it may be a pre-1966 DS with an Agent barrel. Whether it's factory or after the fact, probably impossible to tell. I have a Colt Python, 8" nickle in 38 Special with the barrel marked "Python Target" that chambers 357 Magnum. Bought factory new from a gun store in 1980. I don't know how I'd "prove" that's how it came from the factory, rather than switching after the fact. So "never say never" is probably as good as any other answer.

    So far as screws not being obviously used, I'd not rely on that to suppose the gun hasn't been opened up. Those of us who buy old guns most always need to open them, clean out several decades of grime, dirt and solidified oil just to get the darn things to work. I don't mess up my guns screws and the same can probably be said for most others who appreciate the old stuff. Removing the SA sear notch on a revolver is pretty easy stuff - 15 seconds with a file and you're done. The talent lies in refitting a new hammer.

    Pictures would be great.
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