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Enfield with mag. cutoff

leadlead Member Posts: 2,513 ✭✭
edited August 2003 in Ask the Experts
I found a 1917 Enfield Mk. I at a pawn shop yesterday. It is full military, has a crown, 1917, and Enfield on the wrist strap. It still has the magazine cutoff installed. I was under the impession these are rare. It does have an import stamp, Sarco, I think. The lady in the shop didn't know anything about it, but wanted $200. for it. Bore was very good, just needed cleaning. Wood was good. Is it a good buy, or is it a little high? Thanks.

Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now.

Comments

  • leadlead Member Posts: 2,513 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I just re-read this. It is a no.1, I think it was marked II*. Sorry for my confusion.

    Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now.
  • ammo guyammo guy Member Posts: 755 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I believe you have described a #1 Mark 3 enfield that was made in 1917 for the british army, it is .303 british caliber, the mag cutoff was for using the gun as a single shot piece to conserve ammo and for training purposes. I would estimate the value at $150-175.
  • TOOLS1TOOLS1 Member Posts: 6,133
    edited November -1
    Ammoguy is right. In WWI they wanted to conserve ammo. They also wanted to make every shot count. I have seen a bunch of these croping up lately. I would think $175.00 would be plenty for it.
    TOOLS

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  • Der GebirgsjagerDer Gebirgsjager Member Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Still......I have encountered comparatively few of these equipped with the cutoff in a 43 year career; and Lee Enfields are one of my special interests. The specimen in my collection was purchased about 25 years ago and I restored it to "as issued" from a basement sporter.
    If they are suddenly appearing on the market some political entity somewhere must have let go of their reserve. Don't be hasty to get rid of it before finding out just how many have become available, and what the history might be. Most of the No.1's produced in the 1917-18 period were Mk.III*s made without the cutoff.

    P.S. Check the stock carefully for small, carved initials. This might have been Capt. Kirk's rifle when he was a Cadet at Sandhurst.[;)]
  • TOOLS1TOOLS1 Member Posts: 6,133
    edited November -1
    DG gibbs and SOG both have them at the moment. They also say that the cut off was for training and call them trainers. But the cut off was to conserve ammo at the frt lines.
    TOOLS

    General TOOLS RRG

    Don't go blaming the beer. Hank Hill

    So much Ice, So much Beer. So little time. Shooter4

    I don't have an anger problem. I have an idiot problem. Hank Hill

    When I was a child, I thought as a child. But now that I am grown, I just wish I could act like a child and get away with it.
  • Der GebirgsjagerDer Gebirgsjager Member Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi, Tools--SOG's advertisements have always been full of historical mis-information and mis-spellings. The cutoff was standard issue at one time from an era when the major military powers thought that the rifle should routinely be fired single shot and the loaded magazine reserved for defending against the attack. You will find that the same philosophy was followed by the American military in the Krag and '03 Springfields, both of which hailed from before W.W.I and both of which had magazine cutoffs. The British eliminated it from the Lee Enfield design to speed and cheapen production during W.W.I., but prior to the Mk. III* they were standard production. It may be true that they were later used as trainers, but this is probably a historical fact that SOG invented.
  • Stormtrooper 13Stormtrooper 13 Member Posts: 236 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've been posting a few questions over the past couple of days conserning a 303 , and now I know what the piece on mine is . The only thing is mine has Lithgow S.M.L.E III 1940 on the wrist strap , and a crown III IIV 1940 pressed into the stock . The serial # on the end of the barrel by the bolt has been over stamped with ENGLAND . How could this be if they stoped making them with the mag cutoff in WWI ?

    qman_lr_105t.jpg


    Only the strong shall survive !!!
  • MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member Posts: 9,239 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    STORM: YOURS IS PROBABLE A WWII REBUILD AS EVEDENSED BY THE OVERSTAMPED SER #, LATER EXPORTED (ENGLAND OVERSAMP). STILL A NICE AND HISORICAL RIFLE.
  • .41Dude.41Dude Member Posts: 97 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Storm. I have a 1942 Lithgow. Look again at your stock. It should be
    III HV for High Velocity. Not sure what the III is for. I will try to look it up. Also Mike is right. Somewhere on the metal should be stamped (small) FTR for Factory Thru Repair. They would take a rifle that had seen some use and bring it back up to factory specs.
    Check out BDLLTD.com and .303British.com Lots of info. They are very nice shooters. 12grs of Unique with the Laser-Cast 170grFP makes a great fun "Plinker" and 40grs of BL-C(2) with the 180gr Remington RN works fine if you have to knock over a Deer or Moose [;)] I love mine [8D] (I also have a 1922 Lithgow)
  • Der GebirgsjagerDer Gebirgsjager Member Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Stormtrooper 13--when talking about Lee Enfields you have to be aware that almost anything is possible. The British and their Commonwealth Countries (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, etc.) and India found themselves hard pressed to provide sufficient rifles in both world wars, and as a result lots of peculiar things happened. For example, the British fielded many Indian Regiments and armed them with the No.4 Mk.1 rifle which was an improved redesign of the No.1 Mk.III*, but frequently armed the English troops with the older W.W.I design. This was especially odd, because the Indians had a thriving arsenal set up by the English at Ishapore which manufactured only the No.1 Mk. III* pattern. Meanwhile, in Australia, the Lithgow arsenal also continued to manufacture the No 1 pattern. Both wars caught the British unprepared and both times they relied heavily on the U.S.A. for weapons. The Lee Enfields were frequently reworked more than once in more than one place, recycled over and over with new barrels, bolt heads, and stocks, and as the other posters here have indicated, the history is in the markings.
  • TOOLS1TOOLS1 Member Posts: 6,133
    edited November -1
    When WWII broke out. Austraila was still useing old tooling. There was no way to ship the new tooling to them with the war going on. That might explain this rifel. Also Lithgow never did produce the No4Mk1.
    TOOLS

    General TOOLS RRG

    Don't go blaming the beer. Hank Hill

    So much Ice, So much Beer. So little time. Shooter4

    I don't have an anger problem. I have an idiot problem. Hank Hill

    When I was a child, I thought as a child. But now that I am grown, I just wish I could act like a child and get away with it.
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