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Quality of older Charter Arms pistols?
fastcarsgofast
Member Posts: 7,179
How are they quality wise?
Can they handl +p ammo?
Here are few examples of what I had in mind.
http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=123549551
http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=123921704
http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=123606821
Can they handl +p ammo?
Here are few examples of what I had in mind.
http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=123549551
http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=123921704
http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=123606821
Comments
I would not fire +P's in any gun that's not marked +P. I might in a Ruger, but Charters are not overbuilt like a Ruger.
Expect sharp edges & HEAVY trigger pull. I'd spend a little more & get a Ruger or S&W.
Neal
The early ones from the 70s were supposed to be quite good, but there were times after that when quality control was poor and lots of poorly finished/fitted pistols got out. As mentioned, lots of those guns have really heavy trigger pulls.
In terms of "can" they handle +P ammo, all of the current production Charter arms guns are rated for +P ammo.
The older ones are not explicitly rated that way, but *personally* I'd have no problem putting a few +P rounds into them for carry or defensive purposes, even without the +P rating.
The reason is that +P ammo was specifically designed to be safe in any modern revolver (of which Charter arms guns qualify) in good working condition. +P ammo existed long before guns were "rated" for +P.
If you check the pressure specs on these rounds, the SAAMI standard for .38 special ammo is 17,000 psi, and for .38+P its 18,500 PSI. Meanwhile .357 magnum rates at 35,000 PSI!
As you can see, the difference between .38 and .38+P is actually pretty small. Guns are supposed to tolerate "proof" loads at 30% higher than working pressure. Also, many of the STEEL guns can handle .357 like pressures (which are double the pressure of standard .38s).
So obviously while you do this at your own risk, I personally think the risks of using +P ammo in these small guns are overstated, and a few rounds are pretty unlikely to hurt anything.
I do agree with Nmyers though that in an all-steel gun you can probably find a used Smith and Wesson for not that much more money than a Charter arms, and IMO its worth spending more for one.
The extra money will get you a better quality gun, and also an easier resale, should you ever want to get rid of it.
Personally, I wouldn't turn down a Charter gun if I could get one for a really nice price, but as a primary carry/defense gun, I'd still be looking elsewhere.
However- the USE of +P ammunition is WAY overrated!
The risks of using +P ammunition are over rated.
However- the USE of +P ammunition is WAY overrated!
+1 to that. [:D]
I have yet to hear of a case where someone wore out a 5-shot steel snubnose revolver by firing "too many" .38+P rounds through it, let alone a case where someone actually blew up their gun this way.
Supposedly the first generation of alloy frame guns (eg from the 50s) were weak and the frames would stretch even from NORMAL ammo. With that kind of gun, use of +P ammo probably would be a bad idea, but this is sort of a special case.
I've also heard it told (and believe) that there is no difference between the earlier Smith revolvers and the later +P rated ones, other than the engraving on the barrel. The "difference" is at some point Smith decided that putting "+P" on the guns made sense.
Realistically, +P ammo is probably not that much better than ordinary .38 special, but given that .38s aren't that powerful to begin with, I don't see why you wouldn't want any advantage you can get.
Pretty much all the quality "personal protection" ammo is +P rated, so why not use it if you can?
Plus P ammo must be much better at fight stopping.
It is waaay louder !!
Doug
1st Generation pieces will have barrel address (right side of barrel) of either Bridgeport CONN (up to around s/n 315,000 DOMs 1965 to approx. 1970) or Stratford CONN (s/n range 316,000 to 1,090,000, DOMs 1970 to 1991). The original intent of the founder (Doug McClennahan - design engineer for Colt, High Standard and Ruger before founding CA) was to produce a low cost, very sturdy, accurate, light weight 5 shot hide out gun - he came up with the "Undercover". The success of the first model led to quite a few more and expansion to two larger frame sizes - the Police models (6 shot .38SPL +P and .32 H&R Mag.) and the largest Bulldog models. The Bulldogs were chambered for .44 Spl and for full house .357 Mag. I've fired several pieces in both those calibers and they are a bit brisk in recoil being in the mid 20 to 30 oz. range. But the strength and accuracy of any of these has not, for me, been a problem - they are made of either chrome moly ordnance steel or stainless ordnance steel and have 8 groove rifling.
The 2nd Generation CA's, known as CHARCO, are the pieces in which the most problems are found. These will have barrel address of ANSONIA CONN and have serial numbers above 1,100,000.
I rountinely carry a 1st Gen. 2.5" Police Bulldog, 6 shot .38SPL+P, which I regularly practice with at the range - it hits where you point it, even with the short barrel, out to 25-30 feet and has a very nice, crisp trigger and short lock time. IMHO, the 1st Gen. CAs are under appreciated and undervalued in today's market - which is good for the few of us that like and use them - keeps the price down. 3rd Gen. CAs are the currently produced CHARTER2000 and MKS Charters - quality has improved noticeably since first issues in 2000 - barrel address will be ANSONIA, CONN and s/n started over at 00000.
Wait !!!
Plus P ammo must be much better at fight stopping.
It is waaay louder !!
Doug
I've done the "Pepsi challenge" shooting +P and ordinary .38 special ammo out of my revolver blinded, and honestly, I can't even tell the difference in recoil or blast between the two.
That doesn't mean its impossible to tell the difference, just that in my experience, its minimal.
Differences in rip shape and frame type (ie all steel vs. aluminum alloy frame) is FAR more important in the perception of recoil from the gun.
Also, as a secondary matter, the better "premium" ammos will use a low-flash powders also, so there can be advantages to using "+P" ammo OTHER than terminal ballistics.
It's a serious defense load.