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Bullet Size for Whitetails

famous wolffamous wolf Member Posts: 125 ✭✭
edited March 2009 in Ask the Experts
I have a question about the optimal, MINIMUM bullet size for whitetails. I know that this is very subjective and dependent on particular facts and circumstances - so I will define my specifics and hope to get responses related specifically to my needs. I am looking for a minimum weight I should consider when selecting a new caliber. I mostly hunt in central Alabama. The terrain varies from pine thickets where a shot at 25 yards in thick brush may occur to open powerlines where my shot could cover 500 yards - all in one morning. I also want to consider minimum recoil, but may need a bullet that can bust through some brush to get to a deer. The size of the deer I hunt range from a 90 lb doe to, at the very top end, a 230 pound buck. I also understand that caliber is a factor. For instance a 115 grain bullet from a 257 Wby. is not the same as a 117 from a 257 Roberts. The 115 may be suitable and the 117 not. I don't want a bullet too small to punch a little brush or explode inside the deer at long range and leave no blood trail, nor so big as to make recoil and long-range trajectory a factor. Thanks!

Comments

  • edharoldedharold Member Posts: 465 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A bullet will not bust through brush to accuratelty even 45-70 bulley will deflect on a small twig. I know smaller calibers are legal but I prefer a 25 bullet, heavy for caliber. Ilike first 25-06 or the wildcat 25-08. I've never tried the 257 Roberts or the Roberts Improved. I've killed a lot of deer with a 25 Remington, a twin to the 25-35 but it was a bad choice when I was young.
    Ed[:)]
  • ATHOMSONATHOMSON Member Posts: 3,399 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I like the 257 Roberts and that is what I use, but I would probably recommend the 270 or the 7mm-08 for all around whitetail and both are user friendly IMHO.
  • beantownshootahbeantownshootah Member Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by famous wolf
    I have a question about the optimal, MINIMUM bullet size for whitetails. I know that this is very subjective and dependent on particular facts and circumstances - so I will define my specifics and hope to get responses related specifically to my needs. I am looking for a minimum weight I should consider when selecting a new caliber. I mostly hunt in central Alabama. The terrain varies from pine thickets where a shot at 25 yards in thick brush may occur to open powerlines where my shot could cover 500 yards - all in one morning. I also want to consider minimum recoil, but may need a bullet that can bust through some brush to get to a deer. The size of the deer I hunt range from a 90 lb doe to, at the very top end, a 230 pound buck. I also understand that caliber is a factor. For instance a 115 grain bullet from a 257 Wby. is not the same as a 117 from a 257 Roberts. The 115 may be suitable and the 117 not. I don't want a bullet too small to punch a little brush or explode inside the deer at long range and leave no blood trail, nor so big as to make recoil and long-range trajectory a factor. Thanks!

    You're not going to find ANYTHING that can reliably take a 230 pound buck at 500 yards that also has a flat trajectory, low recoil (though "low recoil" is a bit subjective), and the ability to penetrate brush.

    Those things don't quite add up.

    If you want punch at 500 yards and a flat trajectory you need a fast-moving heavy bullet and that isn't compatible with low recoil.

    Realistically, are you comfortable taking a 500 yard shot? IE are you absolutely SURE you can hit the vitals of a deer consistently at that distance? If you are, you probably have enough hunting and shooting experience that you don't need to ask questions about bullets.

    If you don't have that kind of experience (ie if you don't actually have considerable practice shooting things at 500 yards), then maybe you shouldn't try to take game out that far. Personally, I wouldn't even try to take a shot that long unless I were desperate.

    Getting back to more realistic scenarios, there are MANY cartridges that are capable of taking a 200 pound deer at 300 yards, that won't absolutely destroy your shoulder.

    Ultimately, it comes down to shot placement as the single most important factor and that is dependent on your skill as a hunter and shooter. With good placement, you have a lot of latitude in terms of caliber and bullet selection. The better a hunter and shooter you are, the less bullet you can get away with because you'll have the ability to get close to game and/or the discipline not to take a shot that you know you can't place precisely.

    Next most important factor is not just bullet weight, but as you imply, a combination of bullet weight and velocity.

    As a blanket statement, though, I'd say you should probably avoid anything under 100 grains.
  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    There is no mythical weight or caliber/weight combination that is going to mow down brush. You have bullets that due to a faster twist in the rifiling, that will re-stabalize quicker, and not go as far off the mark, but nothing is going to cut thru the brush, period.

    That being said, I have killed deer with everything from a 22LR to a 458 Winchester. I for a long time preferred 30 caliber, as it was labeled the mythical brush busting caliber. I still like my 300 Win Mag, and now also have the RUM mag to go with it. I have in the past 3 years favored my 25 WSSM which is on par with the 25-06, and I love my 260 Remington. I would say go with either a 25-06, or the 260 Remington. I like the 120's for the 260, and the 110 Accubonds for the 25 WSSM.

    Best
  • RCrosbyRCrosby Member Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    +1 edharold re: brush busters. They don't exist. With the 500 yard option in mind I'd say 25-06, .270 minimum. I'll never let go of my .257 Roberts, but then I'd never take a 500 yard shot with it either. I'm just not good enough to feel confident of a well placed shot, FROM FIELD POSITIONS, at that range. If you are, more power to you. Keep in mind that even under perfect conditions your animal has a good half second or so to move between the time you pull the trigger and the time the bullet arrives on the scene to do it's damage.
  • SCOUT5SCOUT5 Member Posts: 16,181 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I believe you answer your own question. You mention 1)recoil 2)long range 3) brush. A 12 ga slug cuts a little brush pretty well when loaded with an ounce or more of lead, however it's not a 500 yard round. Any round capable of 500 yards in a hunting situation needs to have a lot of velocity, which means it is not going to handle brush very well. Any rifle capable of 500 yards will kill at 25 yards if the bullet is tough enough not to fragment at the 25 yard velocity. No matter the caliber you have to pick holes in the brush to shoot through unless the brush is directly in front of and very close to the deer, even a 12 ga slug.

    In my opinion your answer is how large a caliber rifle can you comfortably shoot that is capable of 500 yards accuracy in a hunting rifle, with the energy to cleanly kill a 230 lb deer at 500 yards? Load this rifle with a good bonded bullet that will not fragment at close range. If recoil is a concern perhaps you can back off the 500 yards a little. For what you ask and the ranges you want to reach, assuming a factory round, I would start at the 270 class rifle and go up. Assuming 1000 ft-lbs at 500 yards as the energy goal. My pick would be the largest 30 cal rifle I could comfortably shoot, but the 7mm class will do the job, again assuming factory ammo is going to be used. There are smaller 6mm and 6.5mm rounds capable of it, 25-06 being one. If i was going to send a bullet into a deer at 3000ft/sec (a 25 yards shot) I personally would be more comfortable with a 7mm or larger to help prevent fragmentation.

    Recoil sensitivity seems to be your limiting factor on bullet size. What are you comfortable with?

    What ever you choose if you are going to shoot 500 yards, practice and knowing your distance will be more of a factor than the caliber, assuming the caliber is large enough and powerful enough to do the job.
  • duckhunterduckhunter Member Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    500 yards????[:o)][:o)]
  • laogailaogai Member Posts: 309 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i've hunted whitetails for 35 years in Pennsylvania, Virginia, Kansas, and Nebraska. smallest was 27 lbs field-dressed taken at 20 feet in a VA marsh, largest was 340 lbs in nebraska, and the longest 325 yards in kansas. that does NOT make me an expert, others have much more experience than me, but I share it as background.
    it is indeed somewhat subjective, and personally I concur with the fine advice above. i do not take shots over 350 yards, and then only with a rest. i have 2 270's and they have certainly served me well, including my only 2 shots over 300 yards, as well as many under 20, and everything in between. i'm not sure this is "minimal" as you request, but recoil doesn't bother me at all--especially in the one weighing 8+ lbs. you might factor in both gun weight and stock configuration, which have noticeable impact on felt recoil, as well as getting a limbsaver recoil pad (which work wonderfully). So there's more to it than just caliber. also by using a barnes solid copper bullet you would get good terminal performance with less bullet weight. certainly use a premium bullet when using less bullet weight. i guess the absolute "minimum" would be an 85 grain hornady interbond in a 243. my 243 has accounted for a number of deer, including some large midwestern ones, very cleanly. all were hit solidly in the vitals and only one needed trailing and that only 50 yards. still I'm not really confident in it, for whatever reason, so it's mostly just been my loaner gun for 30 years mostly to ladies and kids. all that said, i would answer your question by saying a 260 with a light barnes TSX bullet. my 2 cents, and don't shoot past 350 yards. that combination would likely cover 95% of your shots.
  • famous wolffamous wolf Member Posts: 125 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Clarification: I am not trying to "plow" through thickets or shoot 500 yards. What I WOULD do is shoot through a few twigs or small branches at close range or shoot a deer at 300 yards (under certain conditions). I will only take shots that I am confident are killing shots and that I have been successful with in the past. I have used a .308 with great success, but was maybe looking for something a little lighter and/or faster with a little less recoil, preferably in a short action.
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by famous wolf
    Clarification: I am not trying to "plow" through thickets or shoot 500 yards. What I WOULD do is shoot through a few twigs or small branches at close range or shoot a deer at 300 yards (under certain conditions). I will only take shots that I am confident are killing shots and that I have been successful with in the past. I have used a .308 with great success, but was maybe looking for something a little lighter and/or faster with a little less recoil, preferably in a short action.


    tests have proven that even the smallest branch or twig will deflect the bullet from its intended path, sometimes by a lot. The farther the twig is from the target, the bigger the issue becomes. If the 308 seems to have a lot of recoil to you a lighter bullet may help. If not; then the 243 or 7-08 would be the best bet for you.

    My .02
  • MOONEDMOONED Member Posts: 936 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    As you suggested, you will get a variety of opinions with your question. Please keep in mind, all are opinions. My opinion (as well as what I have used for years, and will continue to for many years to come), is the 30.06. Some will probably agree, others will disagree.
    My reasons are as follows:
    Ammunition is readily available ANYWHERE.
    Ammunition can be grained up or down, depending on the need. But one could always use a heavier bullet in lighter conditions. It's not necessary, but will work effectively.
    The range is up to about 300 yards effectively. I had one kill on a small doe last year in Georgia at just under 300 yards. I have not tried to extend that range yet, but will pursue that next year. I expect the range could actually be farther if necessary.
    Your last point, "blood trail". In the past four years I have hunted In several of the southeastern states (Alabama included). On all kills, I have never had a lack of a blood trail when game did not drop where it was shot.
    Having used the same firearm over the past ten or so years, I have no doubts that when sighted in properly, the 30.06 is an all around caliber that has range, impact and will provide a bloodtrail that is easily followed.

    Anyway, my 2 cents.

    Aaron
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