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Muzzle Velocity for Ruger PC-9 vs. Handgun

mljacksomljackso Member Posts: 297 ✭✭
edited March 2009 in Ask the Experts
Wondering how 9 mm muzzle velocity coming out of a Ruger PC-9 (Police Carbine ... rifle) compares to a typical handgun. Anybody have any data on this or venture to guess? Absolute velocities and/or percentage increase....

Comments

  • NwcidNwcid Member Posts: 10,674
    edited November -1
    I dont know what the velocity change is between a pistol and a carbine. Part of it will depend on what ammo you are using.

    I do know that 16" carbine 9m's are very cool and MUCH more accurate then handguns. It is not hard to make 1-200 yard shots with a 16" gun. I have several and all are very fun, I do not have a PC-9 though.
  • 32 Magnum32 Magnum Member Posts: 820 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    From the few articles on tests that I've seen/read over the years - depending upon rifling, barrel length and bore - you can expect at least 250 fps increase in muzzle velocity. 16" - 18" length of barrel is about ideal for 9mm and 40 S&W cartridges as the volume of gas generated has enough expanded volume to provide "push" to the projectile through this length barrel.

    added: I stand corrected on the PC-9 velocities. I was thinking of the ballistics for the Marlin Camp 9, which I looked up for mine. The Marlin produces a bit more velocity than the PC-9:

    "From the Marlin's sixteen and one-half inch barrel, 9mm Luger ammo exhibits some pretty impressive velocities, for a pistol cartridge. I chronographed a few types of ammo, with the chronograph set at ten feet from the muzzle. Velocities are listed in the chart below in feet-per-second (fps). Bullet weights are listed in grains. HP is a jacketed hollowpoint bullet. PB is Cor Bon PowRBall, a specialty hollowpoint with a plastic ball in the nose. DPX is a homogenous copper hollow nose bullet. HS is a hollowpoint with a post insert to promote expansion. FMJ is a full metal jacket bullet. Velocities were recorded with an air temperature of sixty-one degrees Fahrenheit at an elevation of around 550 feet above sea level. Accuracy is the average group size for a three-shot group at fifty yards. Group sizes are listed in inches. The GECO FMJ was not tested for accuracy. I have precious little of it left, and do not waste it on paper.

    Ammunition Bullet Weight Velocity Accuracy
    Cor-Bon DPX 115 1330 1.75"
    Cor-Bon PB 100 1692 5.375"
    Cor-Bon HP 115 1532 0.875"
    GECO FMJ 124 1306
    Buffalo Bore HP 115 1646 3.5"
    Buffalo Bore HP 124 1458 2.125"
    Buffalo Bore HP 147 1225 1.375"
    Federal HS 147 1155 0.75" "
  • Colt SuperColt Super Member Posts: 31,007
    edited November -1
    My Uzi with the long barrel on it would shoot under 2", offhand, at 100 yards.

    And it way better knocked the hell out of rocks than my Beretta 92.

    Doug
  • beantownshootahbeantownshootah Member Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:From the few articles on tests that I've seen/read over the years - depending upon rifling, barrel length and bore - you can expect at least 250 fps increase in muzzle velocity. 16" - 18" length of barrel is about ideal for 9mm and 40 S&W cartridges as the volume of gas generated has enough expanded volume to provide "push" to the projectile through this length barrel.
    I can't speak to .40SW, but none of the numbers I've seen for 9mm have been quite that good.

    Unlike say, the .357 magnum, which really can pick up 200+ fps from a rifle barrel compared to a pistol, the 9mm is actually a fairly efficient pistol cartridge with a relatively low powder capacity.

    Consequently, it will only pick up about 100 - 150 fps from a 16-18" carbine barrel compared to a full sized (5") pistol barrel. Some say that you get no benefit at all past 10" of barrel with this round.

    The velocity gain is dependent on the exact load, with lighter bullets (eg 115 grain) in general gaining more. Also, slower burning powders are going to squeeze more "juice" out of longer barrels.

    Here is some test data:

    quote:http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-19793.html
    CCI Blazer 115 gr FMJ:
    P85 - 1165 fps (=347 fpe); Carbine - 1274 fps (=414 fpe); velocity increase 9.4%; energy increase 19.3%.

    Rem UMC yellow box 115 gr FMJ:
    P85 - 1089 fps (=303 fpe); Carbine - 1229 fps (=386 fpe); velocity increase 13%; energy increase 27.4%.

    Handload 6.0 gr HS-6 115 gr cast lead rn:
    P85 - 1031 fps (=271 fpe); Carbine - 1264 fps (=408 fpe); velocity increase 23%; energy increase 50.5%.

    Cor Bon +p 115 gr:
    P85 - 1311 fps (=439 fpe); Carbine - 1482 fps (=561 fpe); velocity increase 13%; energy increase 27.8%.

    Georgia Arms +p 124 gr:
    P85 - 1220 fps (=410 fpe); Carbine 1377 fps (=522 fpe); velocity increase 13%; energy increase 27.3%.


    This isn't comprehensive, but as you can see, some of the hotter 9mm loads will yield 1450 fps from a carbine, making them comparable to .357 magnum pistol ballistics.

    And as mentioned, you don't just benefit from increased velocity, but more from increased accuracy and "fun" factor!
  • beantownshootahbeantownshootah Member Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 32 Magnum

    Ammunition Bullet Weight Velocity Accuracy
    Cor-Bon DPX 115 1330 1.75"
    Cor-Bon PB 100 1692 5.375"
    Cor-Bon HP 115 1532 0.875"
    GECO FMJ 124 1306
    Buffalo Bore HP 115 1646 3.5"
    Buffalo Bore HP 124 1458 2.125"
    Buffalo Bore HP 147 1225 1.375"
    Federal HS 147 1155 0.75" "

    I don't question the accuracy of this data, but I do have a few comments.

    The first is that Corbon and Buffalo Bore are "ultra-premium" loads that cost over $1 each, and literally the fastest/hottest rounds of their type on the market.

    So in an absolute sense, the relatively high velocities you see here are a bit misleading since you're starting with the highest velocity loads available. In fairness, you'd have to compare to chronographed pistol loads to see the increment from a carbine (see below).

    Also, since these particular loads are crammed with the maximum possible amount of proprietary powders, its plausible that some of them will pick up more velocity than "ordinary" loads from longer carbine barrels. Another way to look at this is that loaded to maximum +P and +P+ velocities, these super-premium loads are practically "carbine" loads as they are, and you'd expect better increments from a carbine.

    For interest sake, I'll try to provide the comparison pistol data as best as I can using manufacturer or third party data.

    For example, Buffalo Bore lists its 115 grain +P+ ammo at 1426 fps chronographed from a 4.6 inch barrel pistol. The number would probably be a tiny bit higher yet using a 5" bbl, but I'll use the data I have.

    Corbon lists 1350 fps for its 9mm+P HP ammo from a pistol, and not only do I believe that number, I think its actually *conservative*. One author lists chronograph data that is actually HIGHER (see "hipowersandhandguns" below).

    http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#9mm
    http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/corbon/convjhp.htm
    http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/CorbonPowRball.htm
    http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Corbon 9mm 115.htm

    So here is your chart, re-edited to reflect the comparison published or chronograph data from pistols. (I don't have comparison data from Geco, and am too lazy right now to try to from Federal, so I've left those out.)

    Cor-Bon DPX 115 pistol 1244 carbine 1330 = 86 fps gain
    Cor-Bon PB 100 pistol 1473 carbine 1692 = 219 fps gain
    Cor-Bon HP 115 pistol 1411 carbine 1532 = 121 fps gain

    Buffalo Bore HP 115 1426 pistol 1646 carbine = 220 fps gain
    Buffalo Bore HP 124 1330 pistol 1458 carbine = 128 fps gain
    Buffalo Bore HP 147 1179 pistol 1225 carbine = 46 fps gain.

    And here is the data from earlier reposted in the same format:

    CCI Blazer 115 gr FMJ: 1165 pistol 1274 carbine = +109 fps.
    Rem UMC yellow box 115 gr FMJ: 1089 pistol 1229 carbine = +140 fps
    Handload 6.0 gr HS-6 115 gr cast lead rn: 1031 pistol 1264 carbine = +231 fps.
    Cor Bon +p 115 gr: 1311 pistol 1482 carbine = + 171 fps.
    Georgia Arms +p 124 gr: pistol 1220 carbine 1377 fps = + 157 fps.

    The bottom line, I think is that the median increase is probably about 150 fps in a carbine over a full sized pistol, with a few of the rounds showing greater benefit, and some showing less. Obviously this will vary from round to round and from gun to gun. Some pistols and carbines are going to be faster than others.

    None of these loads seem to yield as much as 250 fps increment from a pistol, though I could certainly see getting that kind of benefit from a carbine with the hotter rounds if you were comparing to usual carry compact 9mm pistols (instead of ones with a full 5" bbl).

    Edit:
    In comparison a good 158 grain .357 magnum load might yield 1250 fps from a revolver, but can yield 1800(+) fps from a rifle.

    Not only is that a significantly higher absolute increase in velocity, but since kinetic energy is proportionate to the square of velocity, you're effectively doubling the energy of the round.
  • mljacksomljackso Member Posts: 297 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I greatly appreciate the efforts expended on this. Frequently I am amazed at the wealth of knowledge available from this blog. You gentlemen are a great resource...thank you!
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