Browing A5 question

clinteasterling

I recently purchased an A5 the serial # dates it in the 1940s at which time Remington was producing them. All of the serial numbers match: the forearm, below the magazine and barrel. The barrel is stamped "made in Belgium" does that mean the whole gun was made there? That is where my confusion inlays... at that time they were supposed to be made by Remington.

It is with in the last 300 of the serial #'s produced by Remington and has the magazine selector on the left side of the gun and the safety is on the trigger guard. Did they ship in parts and assemble them in the US or was it actually assembled there?

Sorry in advance I am not familiar enough with photo bucket to add pictures and thanks for your input and knowledge.

charliemeyer007

http://www.browning.com/customerservice/dategun/detail.asp?id=13

I'm thinking if it says made in Belgium it was.

Exact serial number of a change sometimes is rounded sometimes as Hey Bob do you remember when we switched to the -5 Yea around 2,750,500.

tsr1965

Remington produced ones that say Remington on them, and are known as Model 11's. If it says BROWNING on it, it was indeed made in Belgum, in the FN factory, for Browning.

Remington, never produced a gun for Browning, with the Browning label on it, but they did like a lot of JM Browning's designs.

nord

Question... Is the gun stamped Browning or FN? Given the suicide safety I tend to suspect that the gun is earlier than you think. If an FN, then I'm not sure that Browning serials will be valid.

I own 16 Ga. A-5 that is most certainly prewar. Not a "Browning" stamp to be found on the gun. Barrel has been relieved to accept our modern shell lengths. Stock is plain. Safety is forward of the trigger. All in all an excellent field gun and no worries about an extra scratch or blemish.

Courtesy of Wikipedia...

Production of the Auto-5 in Belgium continued until the start of World War II, when Browning moved production to Remington Arms in the United States. The Auto-5 was produced by Remington alongside the Model 11 until FN could resume making the gun after the war.[

asphalt cowboy

quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
Remington produced ones that say Remington on them, and are known as Model 11's. If it says BROWNING on it, it was indeed made in Belgum, in the FN factory, for Browning.

Remington, never produced a gun for Browning, with the Browning label on it, but they did like a lot of JM Browning's designs.




Remington did in fact manufacture Browning A5's. It was during WWII while Belgium was under German occupation. These are the ones referred to as an American Browning.

Clint I'm beginning to wonder if the information you found was in error.
Is the serial number wholly numeric, or some combination of alpha numeric?
Where on the trigger guard is the safety located?
Early pre-war guns had the safety in the front of the trigger bow.
It was moved to the side rear with the start of the American Browning and remained there afterwards.

Before you go removing screws, sorry Mike Wiskey not everyone has proper screwdrivers, and risking molesting them if they aren't already.
Call Browning customer support. 1-800-333-3288. They may, or may not, transfer you to their historian.
The information you will need to tell them is the model, gauge and serial number. They will also need to know the location of the serial number as well as location of the safety.

If I understand your description your serial number is on the bottom of the receiver in front of the loading port?
If so, this falls in line with the suicide safety and points toward a pre-war gun. As I recall the American Browning, and those after, have the number on the right side of the receiver.

I stand corrected.
Thank You Bert.

clinteasterling

Looked at the Serial Number and it is 236XXX and is only numerical.

Which puts being made when Remington was making them, however it is stamped "Browning" and "Made in Belgium".

It does have the suicide safety (in front of the trigger).

I am begging to think Charlie may have the right idea.

Everything has me leaning toward it being made in Belgium, but the serial doesn't match what is on the date your Browning site.

nord

I believe Browning serials are more or less approximate. This from anything I can gather in reference material. As an example I once owned a Winchester 21 that presented a bit of an enigma. The serial on the 21 indicated much earlier production than the original invoice stated. Since this was a deluxe model and since it was ordered specifically for the original owner, the only logical conclusion was that its major components had laid in a bin for over a decade before they were selected for assembly. I doubt Browning was much different.

The suicide safety is probably the best indicator of where and when the gun was made. As memory serves this particular feature was discontinued in 1939. Past that point the safety was moved to the rear of the trigger. All A-5's constructed post 1939 (as far as I know) will sport the rear safety and no Remington-produced A-5 will be any different. Thus the major components of your A-5 are Belgian without much question.

But there are exceptions to every rule, aren't there? It's entirely possible that some inventory from Belgium was moved to Ilion. Depending on how and when the receivers were serialized, I suppose it's possible that Remington did the final assembly on old inventory and that the serial was stamped as of the latter date. This just the opposite of Winchester where the serial was assigned when the receiver was made.

We need to remember that the world was different in 1940. Fact is, it was still different into the 1980's. When still in high school I found a L.C. Smith laying in a field. It was in fairly poor shape but salvageable. I spent many hours bringing her back to life. She returned the favor with countless trips afield and I promised myself that if I could ever afford to do it, she'd be restored to her prime.

That time came in the mid 80's when I took her to the Ithaca Custom Shop. There I got an education. They removed the side plates and immediately knew the man who had finished the gun... Knew the man just as if he was just out on lunch break! Then a trip out onto the floor where I was shown the exact machines and tools which had made my gun. What I'm getting at is that we tend to forget how small the gun manufacturing community really was, the degree of interaction between companies, the hand finishing involved, and the inclination not to waste anything.

Bottom line is that the serial probably is of little significance. For all intents and purposes you have a pre 1940 Belgian Browning. While it might be interesting to know the actual history of the gun, it really isn't a matter of great significance. You have a fine and distinctive shotgun. With just a bit of care she'll hit her century mark with ease. Enjoy!

MIKE WISKEY

In the course of 40 years on gunsmithing I've worked on a bunch of A-5's of all flavors. There are some small parts differences between the "American" Brownings and the "made in Belgium" ones. The easyest to find is the front trigger plate screw, this is held in place by one of the small 'capture' screws. On the Belguim made guns this is a true 'screw' with threads on the small end, on the Remington made 'Brownings' it is a 'headed pin' with no threads. The easy way to check this is to remove the small capture screw and attemt to tighten the trigger plate 'screw', if it rotates less than 1 turn and stops it was made in Belguim, if it just rotates with no stop it was made by Remington.

Bert H.

Belgian Browning serial numbers were on the bottom of the receiver both pre and post WW II, while the "American" (Remington) made Auto-5s all have the serial number on the side of the receiver, with the letter A, B, or C (to identify the specific gauge).

The gun in question was built by FN in Belgium, and it was most likely just before German occupation shut down production for most of WW II.