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Howa, or Vanguard, and Cal.

HawkshawHawkshaw Member Posts: 1,016 ✭✭
edited September 2017 in Ask the Experts
I'm considering buying another rifle, and I'm wondering if anyone has opinions on either of the two mentioned rifles. I'd like the best accuracy, "out of the box", I can get, but don't want to spend for a new Cooper!!!! Tell me about the 6.5 Creedmore. THX in advance

Comments

  • AdamsQuailHunterAdamsQuailHunter Member Posts: 1,437 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello - Hawkshaw - I have two Howa rifles - one in 6.5X55 and one in 22-250. I also have Remington 700s and Winchester 70s. I will stack my Howa(s)up against either of the two. As for the 6.5 Creedmore - I don't have one.

    Best Regards - AQH
  • MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member Posts: 9,305 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    just to note; they are one and the same, maybe just different packaging
  • MobuckMobuck Member Posts: 11,568 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    HOWA/Wby Vanguard is my choice these days. I have 4 of them (down from 7 due to hard times in 2012) and every one is dependable and accurate.
    As far as I'm concerned the HOWA is the Rem 700 of the 20teens.
    Correction, I have 5-.223(x2-1 sporter and 1 HB), 257 Wby, 7mm08, and 300 Win mag. Various years of production-1 branded S&W, 2 branded Wby, and 2 branded HOWA. I sold 10-12 while I was in the business and never heard a single complaint about the quality or accuracy.
  • pulsarncpulsarnc Member Posts: 4,416 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Had a Vanguard VGS and currently run a 1500 Howa in 308 you will like it
    cry Havoc and let slip  the dogs of war..... 
  • AmbroseAmbrose Member Posts: 2,721 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    As has been said, the Vanguard is a Howa.

    As to the 6.5 Creedmore: I am currently experimenting with 3 rifles in that chambering, a Ruger American, a Browning AB3, and a Bergara Woodsman. Accuracy is OK but not the "dime, all-day-long" that everybody brags about. I've tried 120, 129/130, and 140 gr. bullets so far. The 160 Horn. RN will not stabilize in the AB3 but will in the Bergara--I haven't tried them in the Ruger, yet. I think it's a good little cartridge for deer sized game; it's chief claim to fame is "efficiency". But, and Nononsense will rag on me for this, I think the .270 is more versatile.

    EDIT: Thank you, TSR, for not disappointing me. I was certain someone would be along to knock my favorite .270 Winchester cartridge, but I couldn't resist mentioning it. Do I take it that you have been experimenting with the Creedmore in something other than a "sow's ear"? I would like to hear what loads you have been using. (Maybe my sow's ears would like them better than what I've tried.)

    EDIT II: I am enjoying our discussion--it reminds me of the old camp-fire arguments about .30-30 vs .32 Special. I'm off to my range this morning taking, among other rifles, one of my sow's ears and the latest batch cartridges I've loaded. (No .270's this time: Don't have any cartridges loaded for them!) I'll get back to you.

    EDIT III: TSR: I'm going to have a little problem wall-hanging my .270 since, at last count, my collection includes 16 of them ranging from a 1926 era Winchester 54 to I think the latest is a Ruger American. There's a Howa in there, too; one that was made for and marked Smith & Wesson. But getting back to the Creedmore: I had decided to boycott the Browning X-bolt since I really like the A-bolt and thought of the X as a cheaper version. But since you recommend it accuracy wise, I may re-think that decision. I just read in Rifleshooter magazine of the Sauer 100XT in the Creedmore chambering and may have to try that, too. If you'd care to look for me on the reloading side, I'll post some results of my experiments so far and would welcome your comments.
  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Ambrose
    As has been said, the Vanguard is a Howa.

    As to the 6.5 Creedmore: I am currently experimenting with 3 rifles in that chambering, a Ruger American, a Browning AB3, and a Bergara Woodsman. Accuracy is OK but not the "dime, all-day-long" that everybody brags about. I've tried 120, 129/130, and 140 gr. bullets so far. The 160 Horn. RN will not stabilize in the AB3 but will in the Bergara--I haven't tried them in the Ruger, yet. I think it's a good little cartridge for deer sized game; it's chief claim to fame is "efficiency". But, and Nononsense will rag on me for this, I think the .270 is more versatile.


    You do not have to wait for Nononsense...I will start.

    For one, it is not the inherent inaccuracy of the cartridge you are dealing with, it is most likely the platforms you are dealing with. You cannot turn a pigs ear into a silk purse by simply lining it with a piece of silk. The 6.5x55, 6.5mm Creedmore, and 260 Remington are all in the same class as far as external ballistics are. They all perform within 50fps of each other, given the same exact bullet, and bullet weight. Of the 3, the Creedmore is the most efficient. As far as the attributes are concerned, they all start a 120 grain Nosler Ballistic tip at around 3000 fps. Very similar recoil to the 243 Winchester with a 100 grain bullet at 3000 fps. Beyond 400 yards, that same 120 grain bullet has more energy than ANY commercially available 308 Winchester, or 30-06 SPRG load. Yes, that is correct...and it does so, while shooting flatter than your most least versatile 270 Winchester...That is the only bore diameter I do not have in my collection. You can only get 2 or 3 bullet weights in it, and you think it is versatile? I will go further to say that because of the high ballistic coefficients, and sectional density of the 6.5mm cartridges, there is NOTHING that you can do with a 30 caliber, that you cannot do with a 6.5mm, given the same parent case...NOTHING.

    Hawkshaw, if you go on our auction side, and search for Browning, and 6.5mm, you can find the new X-Bolts for under $550.00 shipped. They are tack drivers. Northern Firearms, or Michi Gun is the name of the place.

    http://www.GunBroker.com/item/697308210

    EDIT 1

    Ambrose,

    I do not have a Creedmore(I do have several 6.5's, including 260 Rem, 26 Nosler, and a short mag version on a custom built rifle) yet, but a friend has an X-Bolt, that he got from that site I posted off the auction side last fall. It was $519.00 delivered/shipped. It was sub MOA out of the box, with just a cleaning, and Hornady ammo.

    We put it on pillars, in a Boyds stock, stress free, and paid close attention to the torque on the stock bolts(55-60 inch-pounds), and have only experimented thus far with one bullet, as it is primarily a whitetail rifle out to 500 yards or so. That bullet is the 120 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip, and we are using a Federal 215 GM Match primer, and the magic number seems to be 44.0 grains of W760. It does close to half MOA consistently out to 400 yards, consistently. We have discussed of pulling the barrel, squaring up and blueprinting the action, and butting a Bartlein barrel on it. While not quite a Jewel trigger, the trigger is pretty good for today's factory rifles with limited/lawyer proof adjustment.

    EDIT 2

    quote:EDIT II: I am enjoying our discussion--it reminds me of the old camp-fire arguments about .30-30 vs .32 Special. I'm off to my range this morning taking, among other rifles, one of my sow's ears and the latest batch cartridges I've loaded. (No .270's this time: Don't have any cartridges loaded for them!) I'll get back to you.

    Well, that is just as well, leaving the old girl home...it is destined to become a wall hanger by the time you are done playing with those 6.5's...BTW...used to have those same discussions of the 30-30 Vs. 32 Special...bigger bore busts more brush...hehehe. In today's world, we know even a 12 gauge slug does not buck brush, but a well constructed bullet with a lot of rotational speed(fast rifling twist), will restabilize faster. That is another plus of the 6.5's

    EDIT 3

    quote:EDIT III: TSR: I'm going to have a little problem wall-hanging my .270 since, at last count, my collection includes 16 of them ranging from a 1926 era Winchester 54 to I think the latest is a Ruger American. There's a Howa in there, too; one that was made for and marked Smith & Wesson. But getting back to the Creedmore: I had decided to boycott the Browning X-bolt since I really like the A-bolt and thought of the X as a cheaper version. But since you recommend it accuracy wise, I may re-think that decision. I just read in Rifle shooter magazine of the Sauer 100XT in the Creedmore chambering and may have to try that, too. If you'd care to look for me on the reloading side, I'll post some results of my experiments so far and would welcome your comments.

    Ambrose,

    Quite conversely. First there was the A-Bolt, then the improved A-Bolt II version. Now they Have an A-Bolt III, which is the cheaper version, to compete with the Savage Axis, and Ruger American, although both of those rifles borrow from the Tikka T-3 action/stock mating system, and are impressively accurate, in most cases. The X-Bolt is an improvement over any of the A-Bolts, and is a total redesign to improve accuracy, functionality, and safety. The accuracy speaks for itself, while functionality is improved thru better ergonomics, and the use of a detachable magazine, that does not have to be attached to a floor plate. The safety aspect, on the A-Bolt and A-Bolt II, one had to take the rifle of safe to unload the chamber...on the X-Bolt you do not have t do that. It seems to be similar to the system TC used on their ICON series of rifles, which in themselves are sleek, while being built like a tank. I purchased 4 of those ICON's for the kids, in 30 TC. They were of the very first ones that were left over, and had beautiful wood, on a fire sale thru CDNN for $349.00 each. I have never regretted it. You will do good with the X-Bolt, and as I said you can find the matte finished ones with the synthetic stocks for a very reasonable price on the auction side.

    Best
  • 62fuelie62fuelie Member Posts: 1,048 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have two, both Weatherbys, They are completely dependable and, if you go with the Weatherby, they have a model called "Range Certified" that is guaranteed to shoot under a minute right out of the box. I don't know if Weatherby offers the Creedmore yet, but you can check their web site. Don't buy their composite all-weather stock, you will be ordering a Bell & Carlson after the first range session. Both of mine are Magnums so I don't know about the smaller cartridges, but I expect they should be just fine.
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