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Too many to choose from! Which one to pick? II
sentry dog 69
Member Posts: 72 ✭✭
Thanks for all of your feed back. My eyes are pretty good but I realize that for how I am wanting to use a rifle that good optics are a must.
But, here too is a bunch of choices. From what I have looked at so far, and that is not a lot, I am leaning towards a Leupold with a lighted recticl. Any suggestions on scopes? I would like to stay around $200 on a scope.
But, here too is a bunch of choices. From what I have looked at so far, and that is not a lot, I am leaning towards a Leupold with a lighted recticl. Any suggestions on scopes? I would like to stay around $200 on a scope.
Comments
That 6.5MM bullet has a way better BC than the corresponding30 or 338 caliber bullets. A 120 grain Nosler BT started at 3000 FPS will have more energy at 500 yards than a 308 or 30-06 with a 165 grain pill...all things being equal. It also shoots as flat or flatter than the beloved 270, and hits the shoulder like a 243. That is the 260 Remington round, and its ballistic twin the 6.5x55 Swede. When you step up to the 6.5/284 and the 264 Win Mag, it gets even better. Because of the lighter recoil you will be able to shoot it better than he does his 338 RUM too. Albeit, that for Elk I would probably step to a 140 grain bullet like the Accubond or the Barnes TSX.
As for a scope, for $200.00, you are not going to get much, but for 300.00-350.00 you will be able to get a very nice Burris FullField II or a Sightron SII in the 4.5-14x40 range. That would be my minimum for glass. The Leupolds IMHO are overpriced for what you are getting. There is a fellow on here who got rid of all of his VX-III's for Burris Signature's. For rifles, you might also look over the Tikka T-3, as IMHO, they are best in class for the $$$ BAR NONE.
I'm sorry you saw fit to get personal about my response, if you'll cool down a bit you will notice, that I agreed with you on every thing except your elk comment. I don't consider myself a wannabe, since I've been hunting since about 1950, and reloading since 1955. I load for about 70 diff. cartridges, from time to time. My dissagreement with you stands as to elk at 500 yds. I know all about B.C.'s, remaining energy etc. I'm not suggesting you need to agree with me, Just don't be insulting on the forum, It doesn't become us. THX It's HAWKSHAW !!!
tsr1965
I'm sorry you saw fit to get personal about my response, if you'll cool down a bit you will notice, that I agreed with you on every thing except your elk comment. I don't consider myself a wannabe, since I've been hunting since about 1950, and reloading since 1955. I load for about 70 diff. cartridges, from time to time. My dissagreement with you stands as to elk at 500 yds. I know all about B.C.'s, remaining energy etc. I'm not suggesting you need to agree with me, Just don't be insulting on the forum, It doesn't become us. THX It's HAWKSHAW !!!
If you have been loading for that many different cartridges, there must not have been many if any 6.5MM's in there. I have to admit that I did not get introduced to that bore diameter untill about 6-7 years ago when I won a Browning SS A-Bolt in that 260 Remington chambering at a raffle for our local gun club. I have been truly impressed, and so will you be when you look into it. The 6.5's have been killing Moose in the Scandanavian countries since the late 1800's. That diameter is one of the most underrated there is. It is simply one of, if not the most ballistically fit dimeters abailable in small arms ordanance. Not only do the bullets have a very HIGH ballistic coefficient, they have a HIGH sectional densitiy which gives them the drive for penetration all out of proportion. When you enter a Nosler Accubond, Partition or a Barnes TSX into the equation it is mind boggling. I believe it is in one of the Barnes manuals, and it was either the data for the Swede, or the 260...the guy shot a Bull Elk at 300 yards quarting away and had an complete penetration. You do not need a 500 WIZ BANG to kill anything if you hit it where it lives. If you and your ole' boys in your Elk camp ever get hold of a 6.5MM, you will realize you do not need to get the snot kicked out of you to kill an Elk.
Just on the side of taking notes.
I am almost 44 years old, so you have been shooting and hunting longer than I have been living. I started shooting when I was 4, hunting with a gun for deer when I was nine, reloading when I was 12, and gunsmithing when I was 15. I held a FFL for 20 years, and let it go last year about this time, but still hold my Gunsmith License. I am not quite to the ranks of nononsense by a long shot, and about the same behind sandwarrior. Since highschool, I have been very mechanically inclined, and fair well in the engineering sciences with mechanical, electrical, and chemical engineering. I am employed by the worlds most recognized manufacturer of industrial sealing products, ranging from the first available sheet gasket(125 years ago first introduced by O.J. Garlock), to the most advanced mechanical seals. I am one of thier two instrumentation, calibration, and automation of process controlls specialist.
I have one more thing lastly to say...If I ever was to get invited to your Elk camp, I promise I would let you and the rest pet my 260 Remington...heck I would even let you shoot it.
Best
EDIT
Bobski,
Not sure about that, but they sure were doing it with American Bison right here on the home lands at that range and beyond. There is no way around it, if there is sever enough damage to the heart/lungs, the beast is going to die.
Doug Wilson,
Thanks for the compliment, but that is owed to some of my mentors here on these boards... nononsense, JustC, sandwarrior, Eric and David on the general board, and other posters as well. My first post on this thread was not so classy at first, and for that I do apologize for letting down the board.
Best
As usual.
Doug
Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
Former NSSA All American
Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
MO, CT, VA.
Senior Member
USA
2297 Posts
Posted - 02/14/2007 : 09:02:42 AM Show Profile Email Poster Reply with Quote
I watched the Waco incident live, and in my opinion it was very botched. All they had to do is wait for David K., like they did for Bonnie and Clyde. 80 innocent, brain washed people, including kids lost their lives. Some of them even being our goverments own BATFE agents who got shot by other agents. This all ome under the Clinton administration, if I remember correctly.
Next was Ruby Ridge. Idaho. Well actually that was a bit before. I do not know how many of our members have ever been to the Machinegun Shoot, at Knob Creek Range in Kentucky, but while there, I had the chance to actually sit down and talk with Randy Weaver in person. The agents had the court date rigged, so Randy who only got his mail about once a week wouldn't know. Yes he was going to go to court on a firearms NFA charge for shortening a shotgun barrel, at the persistant request of an undercover BATF agent, who infiltrated the religous group the Weavers were affiliated with. When he did not make that date, instead of going up to the house, and saying that he was under arrest, for such, they invaded his woods surrounding his home. His son and dog were out plinking/hunting, and they shot the dog, and when the boy ran for home, they shot him in the back. Upon setting up snipers and observation points, a sniper shot his wife from 200 yards away as she stood in the door way holding her infant baby in her arms...he said she posed a threat to his life...imagine that.
After all of the dust settled from this, Clinton's Attourney General, Janet(Pig Face) Reno says that she takes full responsibility for both Ruby Ridge, and Waco. Her fat behind should have been swinging from an oak tree for it. Make no mistake about it...our goverment is not only ruthless, but shameless."
I went back to the earliest post that I could find for you, and it looks fine to me.
To what are you referring ??
Doug
Staying with the topic that you asked, I sincerely don't believe that there are any scopes in the $200.00 range with a lighted reticle that will be worth the purchase.The scopes at this price point are usually low quality and won't stand up to use or will not transmit an image that is as sharp as you need to the range you wish to shoot. The farther you shoot, the better the optics have to be.
The base group of manufacturers that I would even begin to try would be the mid-range Nikon, B&L and Burris. Questions like this can cover several topic postings and should. They give the members a chance to cover new products and discuss the products necessary to a particular need. Check on the Auction side and post some of the variety that you find and we can discuss your choices.
Best.
Some general thoughts with regard to this thread and others like it:
There are a ton of experienced hunters and shooters on the Gunbroker Forums. With all of this experience comes a broad spectrum of opinions concerning just about everything. The knowledge base is nothing short of spectacular!
Most of the members have experience to back up their opinions but they may not have experience with all of the cartridges and hunting situations that others of us pursue. That's the beauty of the forums. We all meet here occasionally to ask questions, get opinions and hopefully learn something new or different. We exchange information in order to broaden everyone's knowledge base.
Members post topics in order to access our expertise, not for us to run off on tangents that have no application. This is especially true here on Ask the Experts since the responses are limited to 10 posts. Off-topic concerns should be addresses through the e-mail system supplied by the owners.
Best.
ADDED:
Hawkshaw,
"I believe you owe it to your sport, and to your quarry, to make as quick, and clean kill as possible."
We all believe that this is paramount whenever we're hunting or discussing the subject of hunting. The underlying tone is that you suspect that we don't believe it and instead carry out our hunting willy-nilly without regard or respect for the game. That's awfully pretentious and conceited on your part to think that we advocate anything other than respect while you support the higher thinking. I will repeat this again. There is a tremendous amount of exceptional experience where our members are concerned and none of them ever suggest that we should forego the respect and regard for game.
"I personally am not interested in taking the shot you are advocating with a 6.5."
That's a good point. You should know your limits. Hunters should never attempt to exceed their personal abilities or restrictions. If you lack the confidence and capability to make a particular shot, you definitely need to avoid that shot. A hunter that has respect for game will pass up an opportunity if the shot is questionable. I have ended a season or two without a particular head of game because of this type of situation. No big deal.
You are entitled to your opinion but that also doesn't mean that I have to subscribe to your thinking and avoid those slightly longer shots simply because you don't want to make them. I and many others frequently practice and shoot at longer than average ranges, honing our skills and judgment. Many of us also shoot regularly in long range target competitions, gaining even more experience and confidence in our abilities. To that same extent, many of us use significantly better than off-the-shelf rifles and higher quality scopes, desiring a greater degree of accuracy than the standard rifles allow. So many of us have the skill, tools, confidence and the ability to harvest a head of game at longer ranges without compromising our respect for the game.
Believe what you want but when the proper bullet is fired with the necessary velocity and accuracy, there is plenty of energy available to kill an elk at 500 yards. Your disputing this fact simply reflects your lack of knowledge about the ballistics of these cartridges and bullet combinations. Elk are not mythological creatures of monstrous stature nor are they bullet proof. They have the same hide, muscle and bone as other game animals except that they weigh more. A bullet through the heart, lungs or neck will kill an elk with just as much certainty as any other head of game. Your overly emotional diatribe is exactly that, emotion without factual information.
Best.
Secondly, let me comment on the question of optics. I believe that "most guns shoot pretty well most of the time, but cheap glass is cheap forever". You can't handload for it, you can't bed it for better accuracy, you can't free float it. You're just stuck with second rate glass. I'd rather see sentry dog buy a good used quality scope (the warranty is for life), than a low end scope.
My last comment to tsr 1965
I totally agree with you about all you say about the 6.5. It is an incredible caliber. I currently have Three 6.5's. The .264 Win Mag, is my go to desert muley, and antelope gun. The 6.5x.284 is the 1,000 yd. champ at the moment. No question they are great. Originally when I responded to sentry dog, I wanted him to know that I didn't agree with your elk comment, and still do not. Mule deer are 2-300 lb critters, antelope 100-130lbs., A big bull elk might go 7-800lbs. I believe you owe it to your sport, and to your quarry, to make as quick, and clean kill as possible. I personally am not interested in taking the shot you are advocating with a 6.5. The critter shurely will die, as you say. but where and when??? I have been on day's long blood trails, that ended in lost animals, cougar kills, spoiled meat, and other hunters taging the elk, miles away. Fortunately none of these were my animals. All of these were caused by poor shot placement, or lack of horse power at impact. nuffsaid.
Good Luck to Sentry dog 69