Winchester 1885 or Browning 1885

oldfed

Hello,

I have a custom benchrest target rifle that was handed down to me from Gramps. Action is a Winchester 1885 High Wall chambered for .219 Improved Zipper. The markings on the rifle barrel are ".219 imp" and "Mesick's Gunshop". On the bottom tang of the action it is marked - PAT. OCT. 7th 79. - Taking off the forearm, the front of the receiver below the barrel has three dots forming a triangle on one side and the letter "P"on the other. Taking off the stock, on the left flat side of the bottom tang there is a small "8", a larger number "10", the number "60" and the letter "M". No serial number anywhere. It is obvious the action was reconditioned and/or re-blued by the gunsmith. What I do know is that it is pre 1908 because it has the flat spring not the coiled. What I would like to know is would there be any further identifying marks visible if I dismantled the receiver or should I just stop where I am? Or, is any of the info provided meaningful? Would be cool if this was one of the original Brownings! thanks in advance for any info.

Will

tsr1965

Hello oldfed,

That would be way cool if that was an old Browning. I am sure our resident Winchester, and especially 1885 expert Bert H will be along shortly to establish a first name basis relationship...with your rifle of course. Really, his knowledge is incredible.

Hawk Carse

If the lower tang is a separate part, it is a Winchester.
As I recall, the Browning-made Single Shots had integral bottom tangs.

swearengine

Doubts have cast to traditional production estimates of 600 rifles and it is suspected that only 150-200 rifles were made. The receiver is not as angular as the Winchester and the joint between the butt and receiver is straight instead of curved. The hammer was also heavier on the Browning and was simpler internally. Very few original rifles are known to have survived.

It would be wicked awesome if it was an original Browning.

Bert H.

quote:Originally posted by swearengine
Doubts have cast to traditional production estimates of 600 rifles and it is suspected that only 150-200 rifles were made. The receiver is not as angular as the Winchester and the joint between the butt and receiver is straight instead of curved. The hammer was also heavier on the Browning and was simpler internally. Very few original rifles are known to have survived.

It would be wicked awesome if it was an original Browning.


There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the Browning Brothers made at least 500 original single shot rifles before selling the patent to Winchester in December of 1883. I have personally seen and handled serial number 498. I know one old fellow that owns (14) original Browning Single Shot rifles.

All that said, the fact that it is marked with the patent date on the lower tang positively identifies it as a Winchester Model 1885.

Bert H.

quote:Originally posted by oldfed
Hello,

I have a custom benchrest target rifle that was handed down to me from Gramps. Action is a Winchester 1885 High Wall chambered for .219 Improved Zipper. The markings on the rifle barrel are ".219 imp" and "Mesick's Gunshop". On the bottom tang of the action it is marked - PAT. OCT. 7th 79. - Taking off the forearm, the front of the receiver below the barrel has three dots forming a triangle on one side and the letter "P"on the other. Taking off the stock, on the left flat side of the bottom tang there is a small "8", a larger number "10", the number "60" and the letter "M". No serial number anywhere. It is obvious the action was reconditioned and/or re-blued by the gunsmith. What I do know is that it is pre 1908 because it has the flat spring not the coiled. What I would like to know is would there be any further identifying marks visible if I dismantled the receiver or should I just stop where I am? Or, is any of the info provided meaningful? Would be cool if this was one of the original Brownings! thanks in advance for any info.

Will


Hello Will,

You do indeed have an original Winchester Model 1885. The serial number was stamped in just one location only... on the lower tang between the tang screw and the stock screw (see the pictures below).

The barrel is not factory original, and it was made/installed by "Mesick's Gunshop" sometime in the 1940s or 1950s.

While it is true that the coil-spring action was introduced circa 1908, Winchester continued production of flat-spring actions up to the end of production in 1920. I own two Model 1885 rifles that were manufactured in 1914, and both are original flat-spring actions.

Straight grip tang...


Pistol grip tang...