Rifle Stocks HS ,Mcmillan ,B&C?

N8Will

Been looking at these three stocks and I think the Mcmillan is a bit out of my price range. What it the difference. From what I have read they seem to be close in the way there built.

txtacco

If you're looking for the most indestructible, McMillan is probably the way to go. They typically come with molded-in color, meaning they don't need to be painted. But some do come painted. McMillans typically require glass bedding, because they don't come with aluminum pillars or an aluminum bedding block standard. Plus, they are expensive.

HS Precisions come with an aluminum bedding block. They are all painted. They have a lot of nice textured color options. I consider them the best bang for the buck.

Bell and Carlsons come in three levels. No pillars or bedding block. With aluminum pillars. Or with an aluminum bedding block. I consider them all around cheaper (built and priced) than HS Precision. I would only consider them if HS didn't make the model I needed. Although I had good luck with their Savage Duramaxx model.

IMHO, if you're looking for more than off-hand hunting rifle accuracy, HS Precision is the way to go. I wouldn't bother with McMillans unless I wanted to build some kind of extreme tactical rifle.

Chris

tsr1965

you two might want to take a look at Brown Precision. They too make a good synthetic stock. You might find some more information if you do a search in this forum for synthetic stocks. I am sure there are many threads on the subject.

Best

nononsense

N8Will,

McMillan is desirable and well made but overpriced and under delivered to the individual buyer. Their lead time is ridiculous and the high cost compounds that to the point than many of us are simply ignoring them.

"If you're looking for the most indestructible..."

Actually, McMillan can't compete as far as indestructible is concerned. That level of quality belongs to Tom Manners:

http://www.mannersstocks.com/index.html

Ian Robertson is a great guy to deal with and makes some styles of stocks that you don't normally see:

http://www.robertsoncomposites.com/htmlfiles800/RobertsonComposites800.html

Lone Wolf has different styles and some ultralight stocks that are fun to work with:

http://www.lonewolfriflestocks.com/

Borden caters more to the benchrest folks but the website is fun to look at:

http://www.bordenrifles.com/benchrest.shtml

This is a company started by Mark Bansner:

http://www.hightech-specialties.com/

All Fiberglass stocks need to either bedded or pillar bedded no matter what anybody states.

Stocks with aluminum bedding blocks need to skim bedded to make the fit of the barreled action stress free.

Best.

txtacco

I'm not trying to start a fight here and I'll admit I don't know much about some the lesser known and more advanced (?) stock makers, like Manners. But the question was about the big three, with the asker already saying McMillans were out of his price range.

Regarding the indestructibility issue. Evidentially, the US Marine Corps considers McMillans indestructible enough. Here's what McMillan says:

"The A-4 tactical sniper stock was originally designed for the USMC."

http://www.mcmillanusa.com/mcmillan-stocks-tactical-stock-list.php

According to Wiki-we-make-it-up-as-we-go-along, the Marines call it the A3 stock. As in M40A3:

"All service M40A3s are based upon the A4 Tactical Riflestock, a high-quality benchrest-style fiberglass riflestock made by McMillan Fiberglass Stocks and cast molded in an OD Green color."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M40_rifle

I say if McMillans are Marine-proof, that should be good enough for most of us! He, he.

But I guess the US Army's soldiers are less destructible than Marines because they use HS stocks on some of their rifles. Here's what HS says:

"We produced over 6000 stocks for the U.S. Army's M-24 Sniper Weapons System."

http://www.hsprecision.com/new_stocks1.htm

Regarding, bedding stocks with aluminum bedding blocks, here's what HS says about the issue:

"All of our Pro-Series stocks are designed to be true "drop-in" stocks, with no bedding required or recommended."

http://www.hsprecision.com/new_stocks1.htm

I don't know if that statement excludes skim bedding and I suspect you might be able to extract some additional degree of "benchrest" accuracy by skim bedding an HS stock, like maybe a 1/8 MOA. But it is certainly not needed for most people's applications. I submit it is better to not initially spend that kind of money or risk screwing it up by doing it yourself until you try it without any glass bedding and see what increase in accuracy you get just by upgrading to an HS.

Regards,
Chris

Nwcid

Many people I know will no longer buy or support HS.

Read here and decide for yourself, http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=338705&SearchTerms=HS,precision

nononsense

txtacco,

One of the purposes of this forum is to add to the knowledge base of our members if and when possible. Additional information broadens the knowledge base, adds to the potential discussions and helps us be better informed consumers. It doesn't matter whether the question was about the `big three' or any others but it is important that the member asking the question gets useful and correct information. Opinions are part of this process and you are certainly entitled to yours. Righteous indignation is usually a part of brand loyalty and that too is understandable. We all have it.

I know both Kelly McMillan and Dick Davis so don't think that this is personal because it isn't. They and their company have a great reputation for fine designs and products. Their delivery times and prices for the individual have now gone to the extreme for individuals so they are a lesser choice. But if they're suitable for the military, good for McMillan! Every business should have a client as big as the U.S. military, whether one branch or more. This gives them a large, broad base client that uses taxpayer's money for their budgets and they don't have to answer to anyone for their decisions, right or wrong.

"All of our Pro-Series stocks are designed to be true "drop-in" stocks, with no bedding required or recommended."

You have to develop an appreciation for advertising writers and the verbiage they produce. Two things come to mind:

1) Having been associated with the advertising industry, I'm well aware of the type of statements the manufacturers can get away with and for what reasons, whether they are true or not. Let me state the obvious. Not everything written by a copywriter and used by a manufacturer is true.

2) Having used dozens of the stocks in question, I have the personal/professional experience to back up what I write, not just the words of some copywriter used by the manufacturer to convince customers.

There are a dozen variables that figure into the degree of fit between the action and the aluminum block of some systems. All you have to do is apply Prussian blue to an action and put it in place on the block to see where the action really contacts the block. Once you've observed this, the reason for skim bedding becomes obvious. Especially considering that the goal of using any bedding system is to provide a CONSISTENT, STRESS-FREE condition, which accentuates the potential for accuracy. All shooters benefit from accuracy enhancing processes no matter what level they aspire to achieve.

Best.

ern98

Hello N8Will, what I'm curious about is how you want to use the stock? Varmint, tactical, target, carry? The end use you have in mind would go a long way in getting a recomendation you can really use. Remember that most of the high end stocks like the HS are going to be relativily heavy as compared to well cured wood. I used a HS on a project once, didn't care for the weight and feel, so I sold it off and replaced it with a laminate stock. With the laminate I was able to custom taylor the stock shape to fit me exactly. Good luck with which ever you pick......

tsr1965

One thing you might want to think about too, is that the military does have a budget...ask those boys and girls in the sandbox that have lesser armour than others. That said, they have a govermednt bid, which many times does not constitute the best, but the one who meets their standards at the lowest cost.

McMillan are indeed top shelf, but not to be put on a pedestal. If you ask the extreme accuracy boys everything gets put on pillars, so the stocks basic function is holding the pillars, not supporting the action to some extent. The most stress free, and rigid at the same time actions are the ones that will win the match.

The above statments said, the McMillan stocks are like buying a Colt, Browning, or Beretta...you are putting some investment into the name...there is nothing wrong with that as long as long as you know where some of the sticker shock is coming from.

Best

260

H-S PRECISION,
THAT IS MY CHOICE.

N8Will

Thanks for all the input. What Im doing is looking for a stock for a hunting rifle that Im having built on a Rem 700 action in 280 ACK IMP. Wieght is a factor but Im a big beleiver in you need a little wieght to be a comfortable rifle to shoot. Thanks agian for all the info. I sure get tired of trying to find honest info from dealers or advertisements.

ern98

You might want to wait until you get your barreled action back before buying the stock. Weigh the barreled action, scope and rings; on a good digital scale and then get the weight of the stock you are interested in from the dealer. Add them together for an approximate finish weight and see if it is a numbr you want to carry vary far. In a 280rem I'd want it to something like 8lbs scoped, maybe 8.5lbs, but that's just me and I'm getting lazier every year.....