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Model 70 300 H&H Super Grade

semcniffsemcniff Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
edited October 2009 in Ask the Experts
Back in 1985 I got a 1949 Model 70 from my grandfather. On the barrel it is marked 300 Magnum but it takes a 300 H&H round. Does anyone know why?

It also has a side mount for a scope. I would imagine it was designed so u could still use the open sights. Has anyone seen a side mount on the left side of the bolt? I would post a pic but im not sure how on this site.

Comments

  • Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Please read this topic, as it explains how to post pictures - http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=259294
  • Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,320 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    While Americans call the .300 H&H a magnum, it was originally cataloged in England as the .30 Super. Show pictures and Bert will pronounce on the markings.

    Side mounts used to be pretty common.
    Do you have the complete outfit?
  • GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932
    edited November -1
    It was originally stamped as the .300 magnum on the model 70 until around 1950, they made about 37,000 H&H's. As a super grade it would demand about 2 times the going price of a standard model 70. If the side mount is drilled by anyone other than Griffen & Howe, subtract half.
  • stevecreastevecrea Member Posts: 486 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    In those days, the 300 H & H Magnum was almost the only 300 Magnum around, so it was somewhat unnecessary to add "H & H" to the designation. However, the 300 Weatherby Magnum was introduced in 1944, so some confusion could have resulted. The 300 Weatherby was a proprietary cartridge exclusively, or almost so at that time, and was likely used only in Weatherby rifles.

    Around the early 1960s, more 300 Magnums were added, such as the 308 Norma Magnum and the 300 Winchester Magnum, making it necessary to be more specific when designating "300 Magnums".

    Those Model 70s of your era, and most especially the Supergrades, were extraordinary. Cherish it!
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    cartod,

    "If the side mount is drilled by anyone other than Griffen & Howe, subtract half."

    This is the second time I've read this statement in one of your responses. I would like to read the citation and source of this statement. It has me curious...

    Best.
  • GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nononsense
    cartod,

    "If the side mount is drilled by anyone other than Griffen & Howe, subtract half."

    This is the second time I've read this statement in one of your responses. I would like to read the citation and source of this statement. It has me curious...

    Best.


    My only citation is previous auction prices, I dont believe you will find this in the blue book. I am sure you have seen rifles that have had there sides drilled out, its a killer on the collector value. M70 with the original G&H side mount still attached will almost every time, bring the same amount of money that a non drilled M70 will bring.

    I can attribute this to the fact that Winchester did offer as a factory option, the installation of the G&H mount at customer request. Plus the G&H mount by itself is a costly addition and rarely seen on a model 70.

    Also the fact that the gun is a super grade would also lend to the credibility of a factory G&H mount.


    IMG_4300.jpg

    IMG_4301.jpg
  • machine gun moranmachine gun moran Member Posts: 5,198
    edited November -1
    Cartod is correct about the destruction of collector value by any aftermarket drilling. I am not a collector, but a shooter, and I find deals on high-quality, otherwise collectible guns because they have been drilled after leaving the factory. The selling prices are usually set by knowledgeable people, such as gun store owners. The last example was a pre-war Winchester 94 in around 99% condition, whose only missing finish was the holes themselves. This would have been a $700 gun at the least, and I paid $270 for it, from a dealer, scope and all.

    Hopefully, your M70 was drilled by the factory or on factory sub-let.
  • woodguruwoodguru Member Posts: 2,850
    edited November -1
    Originally posted by nononsense
    cartod,

    I've gotta tell you, that engraving of the elephants on that rifle gives me a serious case of envy, I could go bananas collecting serious engraved firearms. As a reasonable alternative I am going to start collecting books and pictures of outstanding examples of the art. I am a writer and a few books down the road I may undertake a project where I try to assemble some of the best examples available for publishing a large art style book. It could be a lot of fun hob nobbing with serious collectors who agree to let their collections be photographed for the enjoyment of others. I love photography so it would make a great hobby project.
  • HerschelHerschel Member Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think model 70's with Winchester mounted G & H scope bases and rings would be very unusual as would the mounts installed by G & H. Most were done as aftermarket work of gunsmiths and the workmanship varies. In the lack of documentation of Winchester or G & H installation, I would assume aftermarket work of a gunsmith. Another thought, G & H sidemounts were probably the best but there were other makes available.
  • stevecreastevecrea Member Posts: 486 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My Dad had a Remington Model 721 or 722 with a scope mount that permitted the scope to be pivoted to the left so the open sights could be used. I believe it was a Lyman mount.
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