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38 Special, To "P" or not to "P"

ElbestaElbesta Member Posts: 334 ✭✭✭
edited October 2001 in Ask the Experts
I bought 2 boxes of 38spl.+P 125gr.JHP. My Rossi is not +P. I looked up on the Winchester ammo. site, for 38 special and +P with 125 JHP. What I found was they both had the same Velocity. Would that mean they have the same powder charge? Is it safe to use these in my Rossi. Can I shoot these so I can reload the brass. Thanks, Elbesta [This message has been edited by Elbesta (edited 10-27-2001).]
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  • luger01luger01 Member Posts: 230 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Elbesta-No, the power is probably NOT the same, and neither is the pressure.You can achieve the same velocity with two different powders, but the pressure curve can be drastically different. The SAAMI specs have been around for .38 special for many years. +P means pressure higher than standard pressure loads: higher than pressure limits for .38 special, but within SAAMI limits for .38 special +P.A reloading manual can help you understand what these pressure limits are and how many different powders can all be used to achieve the same velocity.As for "should you shoot the +P rounds in a revolved not rated for +P"? If you can buy ammo that give the same velocity without the +P designation, I would use that. While your revolver probably won't blow apart if you do use +P, it well accelerate wear and void your warrentee. If Rossi says std. pressure only, that is what you should use. If you just have to shoot +P rounds - don't make it a steady diet for your gun unless you want to pay a gunsmith to tighten it back up.There are so many revolvers that have no problem with +P .38s, that I would consider trading in your Rossi for a nice (maybe used) .357 mag revolver (S&W or Ruger). You can shoot .38s, .38 +ps, and .357s in a revolver chambered for .357. The flexibility that a good .357 revolver gives is very nice. And what do you mean "how much should I reduce the charge ..."???? Are you thinking about pulling the bullets, measuring out a new charge of powder and reseating the bullets???? INSANE. If you are going to handload - do it right. NEVER, NEVER reuse powder from factory ammo. You don't know what the powder is, what is safe, and you probably couldn't even buy that powder. Factories do not use canister powder that you buy in a store. If you want ammo you can shoot in your Rossi, sell the dang +P adn buy std. pressure ammo, or trade it to someone whose gun is of higher quality.If you are thinking about what it sould like, you need to learn one heck of a lot more before you create a dangerous situation. I'm trying to be nice, but I suspect that you know very little about guns, ammo, and have never taken a safety course. Look for a gunshop or range that can help you learn enough to keep yourself safe![This message has been edited by luger01 (edited 10-27-2001).]
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  • ElbestaElbesta Member Posts: 334 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Luger01The idea of reducing the charge is a bad idea. I would reload with new powder 5.7 grs. of Unique. I was looking for something a little more than the generic answers you had. Maybe I should have clarified my situation better. The boxes of 38 SPL +P have the same product symbol as the Winchester Spec Sheet shows for the 38 special USA38JHP. But in any case I could sure do without the extra remarks in your answer. I am a 43 year Ret. Vet. and have been handeling firearms safely for over 30 years. Maybe the idea of asking before you do something is what this forum is all about. Elbesta
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  • nmyers@home.comnmyers@home.com Member Posts: 205 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Luger01 is technically quite knowledgeable, and there is a lot of good info in his response. While he may have given more information than you wanted, your safety was, I am sure, his main concern.To answer your question directly, no, it is not safe to fire the +P ammo in your Rossi. Forget Winchester specs and box symbols. The ONLY safe way to reload is to have a reloading manual in front of you and follow it precisely. For pistol loads, first pick the caliber and projectile appropriate to your gun; then find the powder you are using, and the starting powder load. Never exceed the maximum powder load. For your Rossi, stay close to the starting load.I only own 3 reloading manuals, but was unable to find any load that started with 5.7 gr of Unique that would be safe to fire in a Rossi .38. Neal
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  • john carrjohn carr Member Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Elbesta, is your Rossi a five shot or six shot? If a five shot, and the bolt cuts are BETWEEN the chambers it will stand higher pressures than if the cuts are directly over the chamber. If the former, it should stand the same pressures as a S&W Chiefs Special. If the latter, then, as I do with my S&W M&P revolver stick to the 15,000 psi loads.
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  • ElbestaElbesta Member Posts: 334 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nmyers,It was the sarcastic remarks from Luger that I can do without. The 5.7 grs of Unique is from the #13 Speer Manual. I would not reload without info from a manual. This is a DNR load for the 125 JHP. I have an email in to Winchester to find out about the discrepancy in there ammo markings.John CarrMy Rossi is a 5 shot and the grooves are between the chambers. Thanks for your info.The current industry pressure limit for 38 Special +P is 20,000 psi, compared to 17,000 psi for standard 38 Special. I have asked Winchester what the pressure of there cartridge is.Elbesta
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  • luger01luger01 Member Posts: 230 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Elbesta,I was not sarcastic (Boy, you should see whan I am). I had no way of knowing anything about you, and when I read yout unedited post, it appeared that you were considering doing something very unadvisable. Please understand that there ARE quite a few folks that visit these forums who would try something like I understood from your post (pulling bullets and taking out a bit of power). If some of my wording was strong - it was because I felt a need to emphasize to you how wrong that would be.I am sorry if you were offended, but I'd rather offend someone than hear that the person ended up in the hospital because they did something dumb. I believe that you realized what your post read like after I first responded and that is why you clarified it. I hope you will not take good advice the wrong way in the future, because there are some great folks here and sometimes we all get a bit snippy when we see others on the verge of making a huge mistake. That's all my reply was. Please reread it and hopefully you can see what I was trying to tell you from my perspective.
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  • toastmonkeytoastmonkey Member Posts: 11 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Saxonpig. In answer to your question about pulling bullets from factory ammo to reuse the rest of the components other than the powder. Concern #1 What primer was used magnum or standard?Concern #2 Why bother? Trade it or shoot it in a +P rated gun. Concern #3 The headstamp is still going to say +P if you you pull the bullets to reload a milder charge. I quit trusting my memory a long time ago.Toastmonkey, Reloading for 16 years. Still very cautious.
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  • sexykmansexykman Member Posts: 13 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a rossi model 351 and I called rossi to see if I could shoot 38+p in my 38 and they told me I could just not the +p+ why dont you just call rossi and ask them what you can and can't shoot though yours. Rossi # 305-474-0401
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