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Handload--what's causeing this?

old single shotsold single shots Member Posts: 3,594
edited March 2005 in Ask the Experts
I have 2 different loads with 2 different powders that will put 4 out of 5 shots in a 1/4" ragged hole. 1 shot out of the 5 will always go out to the left (9 oclock) about 1/4---3/8" It may be the 2nd 3rd or 4th shot that strays.The other 4 will group 1/4" regularly.What is causeing this?? Caliber is 223.It also does this with 2 different bullets.

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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The only explanation I can see for that is trigger control. If that one strayer was going high or low (or even to the right) then it might be attributable to the load or the rifle, but if it is always going to the left, I think you need to look in the mirror for the cause. Most of us would be real happy with a single strayer that is only 1/4 - 3/8" off the mark[:D]

    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
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    old single shotsold single shots Member Posts: 3,594
    edited November -1
    "look in the mirror" No--Never--Can't Be.[:D]You may well be right Bert.It always goes exactly left.Aggravateing,because it spoils an otherwise nice group.
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    ContacFrontContacFront Member Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    OSS,

    How long do you wait between shots? Do you let the barrel cool? People always say 3 shots groups to test the load, 5 shot groups to test the shooter.

    I always use 5 shot groups for load testing. 3 shots don't tell you much. If you are shooting all 5 in a quick string barrel heat can cause the bullet to move.

    Also lets say you shoot 4 shots, chamber and barrel is heated up. You chamber round number 5 and wait long enough, the temp change between round 1 and 5 will be enough to move that shot up. 20 degree will move bullet impact almost 1MOA in my gun. I always leave the bolt open and do not load a round before I am going to fire. Keep the ammo temp as even as you can.
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    old single shotsold single shots Member Posts: 3,594
    edited November -1
    Contacfront--I do let the barrel cool between shots.I also do not chamber until i am ready to shoot.If it was always shot no. 4 or 5 i would suspect that maybe the barrel is warm.It can be shot no. 2 and then 3 4 and 5 will go back with shot no. 1.To me, that pretty much eliminates heat being the cause. ??????
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    MobuckMobuck Member Posts: 13,855 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It could be something as insignificant as a slight difference in neck wall thickness, case length, or how you hold the stock against your shoulder.

    Mobuck<BR>
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    b00merb00mer Member Posts: 975 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    1. weigh each case
    2. measure each case
    3. weigh each tip
    4, measure each tip
    5. weigh each loaded round
    6. measure each loaded round
    7. fire each shot at the same amount of time between shots
    8. look in mirror if shots differ

    Its really hard to soar with the Eagles, when you are stuck with turkeys!
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    JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    are you using a ball powder like H380?

    why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
    Got Balistics?
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    old single shotsold single shots Member Posts: 3,594
    edited November -1
    JustC --One powder is H-335 the other is imr 4198
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    JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    if it were only doing it with the ball powder, I would think that would be "powder positioning". I just read a thread a few days ago where the guy got different POI's if he positioned the ball powder differently. he got 1 POI if the powder was positioned against the flash hole, and another POI when it was positioned against the base of the bullet. By tapping the bullet lightly and inserting it so it is against the flash hole, he got better groups with more consistency.

    also, how many firings on the brass? Have the necks thickened and caused a change in neck tension in some cases more than others? (check neck wall thickness on the flyer cases). Have you tried marking the flyer cases and then loading them and firing a group with just them? Have the cases stretched so that they contact the leade on some of the cases and actually start a crimp on the bullet? (shiny area on the case mouth or whole case mouth shiny from the bolt forcing it against the leade/rifling)

    why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
    Got Balistics?
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    old single shotsold single shots Member Posts: 3,594
    edited November -1
    justC--The cases are once fired and have been trimmed to min. length.Have not taken any neck measurements.That's something i will check out.
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