In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Niedner Cold Rust Blue
gesshots
Member Posts: 15,678 ✭✭✭✭
I am trying to recreate The Niedner Cold Rust Blue formula.
This is the recipe as related in Roy Dunlap's classic book - Gunsmithing [1950],
and as told by Tom Shelhamer / manager of the Niedner Rifle Company.
Nitric Acid - 2.5 ozs.
Hydrochloric Acid - 2 ozs.
Wire Nails - 1 oz.
Distilled Water - 30 ozs.
Dissolve nails in acid > then add water. The application process is to involved to relate here, but if you can't find a copy of Gunsmithing
let me know and I'll post a copy .
My question to all the chemists out there is: Does anyone know the correct strength of acids?
After searching several chemical supply companies, I discovered these acids are available in several percentage strengths.
Roy Dunlap states (and is correct) that "once you see this finish, no other will seem very good".
For anyone who doesn't know - Adolph Niedner, Tom Shelhamer & Roy Dunlap were master gun smiths / artists of a few generations back whose work now commands
five figure price tags. I highly recommend Gunsmithing for any library.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
This is the recipe as related in Roy Dunlap's classic book - Gunsmithing [1950],
and as told by Tom Shelhamer / manager of the Niedner Rifle Company.
Nitric Acid - 2.5 ozs.
Hydrochloric Acid - 2 ozs.
Wire Nails - 1 oz.
Distilled Water - 30 ozs.
Dissolve nails in acid > then add water. The application process is to involved to relate here, but if you can't find a copy of Gunsmithing
let me know and I'll post a copy .
My question to all the chemists out there is: Does anyone know the correct strength of acids?
After searching several chemical supply companies, I discovered these acids are available in several percentage strengths.
Roy Dunlap states (and is correct) that "once you see this finish, no other will seem very good".
For anyone who doesn't know - Adolph Niedner, Tom Shelhamer & Roy Dunlap were master gun smiths / artists of a few generations back whose work now commands
five figure price tags. I highly recommend Gunsmithing for any library.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
It's being willing. I found out early that most men, regardless of cause or need, aren't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger. I won't. ~ J.B. Books
Comments
The Niedner Cold Blue
Through the courtesy of Tom Shelhamer, who managed the Niedner Rifle Corporation during the days of its greatness , I am able to give the details of their bluing process. The finish on Niedner custom rifles was unequalled, being a deep, dark lustrous blue which would resist almost anything except a file. It withstood mutch greater wear and resisted rust far better than any of the present hot bath blues. I have one Niedner rifle which is about 12 years old at present, has had considerable handling and use and the finish is as good as the day it left Dowagiac. It is not necessary to wipe off every fingerprint, keep everything oiled and so forth, as with most blues.
The process is given as stated by Mr. Shelhamer, and the amount of labor involved will not sit well with present day rush bluers. Only a conscientious gunsmith and a firearms connoisseur can appreciate the true value of a fine rifle blued in this manner.
Nitric Acid - 2.5 ozs.
Hydrochloric Acid - 2 ozs.
Wire Nails - 1 oz.
Distilled Water - 30 ozs.
This is one-eighth of the full formula, which was developed originally by Zischang, a well known gunsmith of two generations past.
The acids are mixed in a crock or glass container, the nails dissolved in them, then the water added. [please note acid mixture should always be added to the water]
It is stored in dark glass stoppered bottles. The method worked out in application by Mr. Shelhamer at Niedner's was somewhat unusual, and the result of much experimenting. The atmosphere in southern Michigan is slightly on the humid side, so for use in dry climates an artificially damp room or box may be necessary to aid the rusting action.
The Niedner system of blueing did not employ all the commonly used methods of polishing, which may have had an effect on the finish also. Mr Shelhamer states that they used Aloxite cloth, down to 320 grit, and while they had various sized rubber drums with belt of the same cloth, practically all polishing was done by hand. No buffing wheel or buffing compound of any kind was ever used. They thus prevented rounded corners, as well as "saucers" over screw holes in flat surfaces. After 320 grit polishing, the metal was wire brushed, with an oily wheel, which blended the abrasive marks and showed up any scratches so that these cold be polished out. The work was put in holders so that it could be handled without being touched by the bare hand, barrels were plugged by tapered plugs made from birch or maple dowels and degreased by boiling in Houghto-Clean for one hour, followed by rinsing in clean hot water.
The barrels were wiped out after degreasing and cean plugs inserted. As the metal must not be touched by hand, a vise with leather
jaws lined with clean paper was used to hold while cleaning and driving in fresh plugs.
The blueing solution was swabbed on, using long nosed pliers to hold a wad of long fiber sterilized cotton. The barrel was also wiped out with during the process, and it is emphasized only the best long fibered is suitable. (The barrels were not wiped with solution, but only with cotton wet with plain water and then withh dry cotton. The solution is to be kept out uf the bore.)
Niedner left the solution on the metal only about three hours, and allowed two coats per working day. The first coat takes little effect, for the trace of alkaline cleaner more or less killed it, so a second was applied over the first after only an hour.
After the application was on the steel three hours, it (metal) was boiled in clean water, the barrels placed in the vise, wet plugs removedand dry plug driven in. The parts were carded clean on a fine wire wheel kept absolutely free of oil. Hand brushes were used a gret deal. The brushes should have a wire diameter of .003", & not over .004". Boiling lossens the oxide (rust) and it cards or scratches off very easily, while sticking very tightly if the work is not boiled. It also darkens the color, so makes possible the judging of the collor during the progress of the work.
When cool, recoat and repeat. The solution was not left on overnight at Neidner's, the parts being left clean and recoated in the morning. Small parts - screws, triggerguards and sights etc. - will be finished in seven or eight coats / passes, barrels and tempered parts requiring from 10 to 12 passes.
The bore must be very carefully protected - dried and new plugs put in after each pass, beause it can not be oiled.
Should an occcasional part resist blueing, or take improperly, polish it and start over. An excessive number of coats will do little good, for with this solution there is alimit to the number of passes possible, after which the color begins to leave and the surface of the metal to pit.
Constant care against oil contaminating the metal during blueing is absolutely necessary and clean paper, in small sheets, should be kept handy, to use in handling pieces of metal or parts. Also, in this connection, it is wise to have a few pairs of cotton fleece gloves on hand, such are used in plating plants. Once in my checkered career I work in a tin mill, and we had to have such gloves to handle the steel sheets and finished tin plat with. In fact, if I remember correctly, we were required to have a new pair of "dry" gloves at the beginning of each eight hour shift.
During the boiling off process between coatings, should a ttrace of oil appear on the water, try to sweep it off with a piece of paper, or scoop it off and if this fails, ad the finish is spotted, you clean off the steel by polishing it again and start over.
A large number of special holders are desirable, Niedner having about 75, consisting of barrel butts to hold receivers, split rods with sliding rings to act as tongs and fixed to hold pins, sightdovetail sections and other parts. Strips or bars of cold rolled steel drilled & tapped to hold gun screws.
This system of blueing entails a lot of patience and time and considerable work of course. Experience in your own locality is necessary, as more time between passes, or artificial damp room may be necessary in dry climates. If you can obtain the beautiful satiny finish possible about the fifth time you try, you will not curse so much. Afterward, no other finish will seem very good.
Roy Dunlap
1950
gesshots