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Is .270 just your fathers caliber?...more
sandwarrior
Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
I firmly believe the .270 is anything but dead. I also believe that in a short time we may see more and better long range bullets for that caliber.
Personally, per your last post mentioning the .223 being legal now in many states to hunt with, I have a problem with that. It's not so much that the .223 won't kill. It will. But the vast majority of ammunition made for it is not hunting ammunition. It's varmint, FMJ, or target. Either not legal or not constructed heavy enough for big game. A really good shot can overcome this by great shot placement. And a quick follow up shot if necessary. But, that still doesn't negate the fact that a properly constructed hunting bullet is better to dispatch an animal.
So, I hope you keep to your standards of a bigger round and good hunting bullets. And, you encourage your hunting buddies to do so as well.
Personally, per your last post mentioning the .223 being legal now in many states to hunt with, I have a problem with that. It's not so much that the .223 won't kill. It will. But the vast majority of ammunition made for it is not hunting ammunition. It's varmint, FMJ, or target. Either not legal or not constructed heavy enough for big game. A really good shot can overcome this by great shot placement. And a quick follow up shot if necessary. But, that still doesn't negate the fact that a properly constructed hunting bullet is better to dispatch an animal.
So, I hope you keep to your standards of a bigger round and good hunting bullets. And, you encourage your hunting buddies to do so as well.
Comments
The military advantages of the new rounds lightness and compactness are not important to me. Not where it counts on making one shot clean kills.
I firmly believe the .270 is anything but dead. I also believe that in a short time we may see more and better long range bullets for that caliber.
Personally, per your last post mentioning the .223 being legal now in many states to hunt with, I have a problem with that. It's not so much that the .223 won't kill. It will. But the vast majority of ammunition made for it is not hunting ammunition. It's varmint, FMJ, or target. Either not legal or not constructed heavy enough for big game. A really good shot can overcome this by great shot placement. And a quick follow up shot if necessary. But, that still doesn't negate the fact that a properly constructed hunting bullet is better to dispatch an animal.
So, I hope you keep to your standards of a bigger round and good hunting bullets. And, you encourage your hunting buddies to do so as well.
Agreeing with all of above, one other relevant factor is that most .223 rifles are designed to stabilize the most common 55 and 62 grain military type bullets.
If you want to hunt larger game (and in this case by "larger" I mean things weighing over 70lbs), you may want to use heavier 70 or even 77 grain bullets, and those require a faster than usual rifle barrel twist rate to stabilize properly.
The .270 has been around since 1923 and commercially released in 1925 in the M54. The .270 Winchester became a very popular deer cartridge due to the widespread praises of gunwriter Jack O'Connor who used the cartridge for 40 years and espoused its praise on the pages of Outdoor Life. It was Jack O'Connor who made it his person calling to push this cartridge harder than any commercial advertising promotion could possibly accomplish. Combine these efforts with the release of the .270 Win. in virtually every rifle ever manufactured, pretty much assured the cartridge of a permanent spot in history.
In reality though, the .30-06 and the .280 Remington are just as good and in most situations, better, at least as far as the .280 Rem. is concerned. But generally speaking, the 3 cartridges are separated by very little and can be used interchangeably as far as a choice for a hunting cartridge.
I like the variety and differences between all of the cartridges available to us as hunters and shooters. Trying to pick just one is impossible for me so my choice is to use as many of the ones that are appropriate to the pursuits in order to have the experience of developing the loads, testing the accuracy and improving my skills.
Good Luck with your choices!
Best.
I do also make it a practice to use the appropriate caliber/bullet/cartridge combination for the task at hand. These are also based on the ability of the combination of myself and equipment. Some of the caliber/bullet/cartridge combinations I have used for bigame, might not mesh with the ability of someone else, or the situation at hand.
Beantown,
quote:Agreeing with all of above, one other relevant factor is that most .223 rifles are designed to stabilize the most common 55 and 62 grain military type bullets.
If you want to hunt larger game (and in this case by "larger" I mean things weighing over 70lbs), you may want to use heavier 70 or even 77 grain bullets, and those require a faster than usual rifle barrel twist rate to stabilize properly.
I agree that there are a lot of 223 rifles out there that have the wrong twist rates to use the heavier game bullets available in 0.224" diameter. However, there are some really well constructed 45 grain bullets that will break shoulder bones on a deer, and expand, and retain weight. They are called the barnes "X", "XLC", and "TSX" bullets. They also make the 62, and 70 grain "TSX" bullets that will fit in the magazine of an AR-15 rifle, and they like the 1 in 7 to 1 in 9 twist rates. I have a 16 inch varmint model that loves either one of them, and prints them into 1/2-3/4MOA. I will be giving back a report in the next month or so on how they worked in the field.
Best
EDIT 1
Sandwarrior.
quote:What I'm trying to point out is that us reloaders can do what is necessary to make a .223/5.56 a great game cartridge. What I find though is that when 10,000+ hunters descend on the local ammo dump/stores there isn't enough hunting bullets loaded in .223 to go around. I personally reload so I can build what I want...beforehand. But, most of the folks I run into at the store say there is no difference in bullets...to them. Most even have to have it pointed out to them the 5.56 FMJ isn't legal.
Even though there is not enough education towards good small caliber hunting ammo, nor enough of it to go around, there are some inroads being made to solve the later. Federal loads the Nosler Partition, and Barnes TSX bullet in 223, and 22-250. Barnes is coming forward with it's own line of ammunition now, too. For the former, they need to follow thru with some advertisement for it, and with the help of "word of mouth", from people like you and I, on public forums, it might help also. However, despite the improvement in bullet performance, there are better chamberings for deer, and the small caliber's are not for everyone.
quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
I firmly believe the .270 is anything but dead. I also believe that in a short time we may see more and better long range bullets for that caliber.
Personally, per your last post mentioning the .223 being legal now in many states to hunt with, I have a problem with that. It's not so much that the .223 won't kill. It will. But the vast majority of ammunition made for it is not hunting ammunition. It's varmint, FMJ, or target. Either not legal or not constructed heavy enough for big game. A really good shot can overcome this by great shot placement. And a quick follow up shot if necessary. But, that still doesn't negate the fact that a properly constructed hunting bullet is better to dispatch an animal.
So, I hope you keep to your standards of a bigger round and good hunting bullets. And, you encourage your hunting buddies to do so as well.
Agreeing with all of above, one other relevant factor is that most .223 rifles are designed to stabilize the most common 55 and 62 grain military type bullets.
If you want to hunt larger game (and in this case by "larger" I mean things weighing over 70lbs), you may want to use heavier 70 or even 77 grain bullets, and those require a faster than usual rifle barrel twist rate to stabilize properly.
This is where the 45 & 53 grains barnes TSX's shine, escpecially in a .22-250. They are tough solid copper and hold up at fast velocities. They produce better penetration and a bigger hole then do factory 150 or 180 grain Remington core-lockts out of a .308(very common hunting caliber & round here). And they have an unbelievable "shock" effect because of the velocity they are hitting with. I love the .308, as well as many other larger caliber I own(.300 WinMag, etc.), but I am 100% comfortable in this bullet, caliber combo. Actually more confident then with my .308 now. I have seen the results and they don't lie.
I am not saying that the .22's are better then the .270's or .308's of the world. Just that with the right bullet they are actually just as good as them on reasonable sized game.
Jon
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
I firmly believe the .270 is anything but dead. I also believe that in a short time we may see more and better long range bullets for that caliber.
Personally, per your last post mentioning the .223 being legal now in many states to hunt with, I have a problem with that. It's not so much that the .223 won't kill. It will. But the vast majority of ammunition made for it is not hunting ammunition. It's varmint, FMJ, or target. Either not legal or not constructed heavy enough for big game. A really good shot can overcome this by great shot placement. And a quick follow up shot if necessary. But, that still doesn't negate the fact that a properly constructed hunting bullet is better to dispatch an animal.
So, I hope you keep to your standards of a bigger round and good hunting bullets. And, you encourage your hunting buddies to do so as well.
Agreeing with all of above, one other relevant factor is that most .223 rifles are designed to stabilize the most common 55 and 62 grain military type bullets.
If you want to hunt larger game (and in this case by "larger" I mean things weighing over 70lbs), you may want to use heavier 70 or even 77 grain bullets, and those require a faster than usual rifle barrel twist rate to stabilize properly.
This is where the 45 & 53 grains barnes TSX's shine, escpecially in a .22-250. They are tough solid copper and hold up at fast velocities. They produce better penetration and a bigger hole then do factory 150 or 180 grain Remington core-lockts out of a .308(very common hunting caliber & round here). And they have an unbelievable "shock" effect because of the velocity they are hitting with. I love the .308, as well as many other larger caliber I own(.300 WinMag, etc.), but I am 100% comfortable in this bullet, caliber combo. Actually more confident then with my .308 now. I have seen the results and they don't lie.
I am not saying that the .22's are better then the .270's or .308's of the world. Just that with the right bullet they are actually just as good as them on reasonable sized game.
Jon
Sig220, (and all above):
What I'm trying to point out is that us reloaders can do what is necessary to make a .223/5.56 a great game cartridge. What I find though is that when 10,000+ hunters descend on the local ammo dump/stores there isn't enough hunting bullets loaded in .223 to go around. I personally reload so I can build what I want...beforehand. But, most of the folks I run into at the store say there is no difference in bullets...to them. Most even have to have it pointed out to them the 5.56 FMJ isn't legal.
I should have pointed out on my first post that I know I'm preaching to the choir. But, these are the problems I see.
So, back to my original thought. The more I putz with the .270, the more I'm impressed. The .308 is a classic example of "if you put enough trained personell behind it, it will work well. It doesn't reach as far as some of the rounds I would choose to use. But, for a good round it reaches as far as it needs mostly.
And, the 30-06 ...is still the standard... what else can you say here. As far as you may want to reach any of these rounds would be a ton of good practice to shoot first.