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Selling vintage ammo- any tips?

steve45steve45 Member Posts: 2,843 ✭✭✭
edited January 2013 in Ask the Experts
A friend of mine has some full boxes of 250-3000 ammo from the 40's and 50's that he wants me to sell. Brands are Winchester, Remington and Peters. I planned on selling them on the auction side. Does anyone have any information or experience with this? A website that has a lot of information on this. Who do I ship it with (live ammo)extra charges(hazmat)etc. Is there any way to get an estimate on value so that I could price them correctly. Im thinking that these are special items that appeal only to a few so starting at a penny may not work. Thanks for the help. Steve.

Comments

  • countryfarmercountryfarmer Member Posts: 4,552
    edited November -1
    Ship UPS or Fedex , no hazmat fees but boxes must be marked.

    How to Ship Ammunition or Ammo

    There have been a lot of inquiries into how to ship ammunition and questioning whether you can ship it at all with today's transportation laws. Well, we did some extensive research to get the correct answer for you and here it is:

    According to UPS, shipping ammunition is allowed, but there are some stipulations. The stipulations are not put in place by UPS, but instead, by the Department of Transportation. The D.O.T. has a classification called Title 49 CFR that spells out the details. We have summarized those details for you specific to shipping ammunition. FedEx has the same requirements, but also wants you to include a "Shippers Declaration for Dangerous Goods" form which is on their site if you do a search for "Dangerous Goods Forms". The USPS follows the D.O.T. requirements but in talking to some of the USPS locations, the managers stated they would not accept the packages anyway in this day and age, so we recommend only using UPS or FedEx to ship ammo.



    Title 49 CFR states in Chapter 1, section 173.63 the packaging exceptions to full regulation. Under that section, (b) Cartridges, small arms, may be reclassed, and offered for transportation, and transported as ORM-D material when packaged in accordance with paragraph (b)(2) of this section; such transportation is excepted from the requirements of subparts E (Labeling) of part 172 of this subchapter. Cartridges, small arms, and cartridges power devices that may be shipped as ORM-D material is limited to:

    Under this "limited to" section, there is item (i) Ammunition for rifle, pistol or shotgun; and (iv) Ammunition not exceeding 12.7 mm (50 caliber or 0.5 inch) for rifle or pistol, cartridges or 8 gauge for shot shells.

    This is the critical part to shipping ammunition. If it is 50 caliber or less, or 8 gauge or less, UPS will take the shipment in a sturdy box marked with a ORM-D, Cartridges, Small Arms label on the outside of the box. UPS does recommend using this label as opposed to a regular ORM-D label from our research and inquiries to UPS themselves. Part 172, subchapter E states the label should be affixed near the shipping address location on the package. By placing it here, the carrier will see it as they direct the package to the correct location during shipment.

    Now, under section 173.115, part (v) it states that cartridges, and 22 caliber rim-fire cartridges may be packaged loose in strong outside packaging. The label marking is the same as above.

    There have been a lot of questions about Hazardous Material training for shipping ORM-D materials. This is a true fact. UPS or any other carrier does not require training. It is required by the D.O.T. and is listed under section 172.74 were the training can be performed by yourself and all you need to have is a documented record of the following:

    * Hazmat employee name
    * Training date
    * Copy of the training materials
    * Name and address of person providing training (This can be yourself)
    * A certificate showing the employee is trained. (This can be made in house)

    A description of the training is found at hazmat.dot.gov on the Internet without the www and click on rules and regulations. The key part of the in house training is you don't have to pay someone to train you. Just read this section and put together the emergency contacts, and procedures in case there is a issue. Easy stuff. With that, anyone can ship ammunition with ease, and the correct way.

    Key resources for this ammunition shipping guideline included UPS through their hazardous materials department at 800-554-9964, FedEx 800.463.3339 through Dangerous Goods, USPS local locations and the Department of Transportation Classification division at 800-467-4922 and the Office of Hazardous Materials Safety on line at http://www.phmsa.dot.gov/hazmat were all the documentation is listed. Knowing how to ship ammunition or ammo the correct way is important. Please pass this information on.

    Here is the official code:

    How to ship ammunition.

    Code of Federal Regulations, Title 49, Part 173 173.63

    Packaging exceptions (b) Cartridges, small arms, and cartridges power devices.

    (1) Cartridges, small arms and cartridges power devices (which are used to project fastening devices) which have been classed as a Division 1.4S explosive may be reclassed, offered for transportation, and transported as ORM-D material when packaged in accordance with paragraph (b)

    (2) of this section; such transportation is excepted from the requirements of subparts E (Labeling) and F (Placarding) of part 172 of this subchapter.

    Cartridges, small arms, and cartridges power devices that may be shipped as ORM-D material is limited to:

    (i) Ammunition for rifle, pistol, or shotgun;

    (ii) Ammunition with inert projectiles or blank ammunition;

    (iii) Ammunition having no tear gas, incendiary, or detonating explosive projectiles;

    (iv) Ammunition not exceeding 12.7 mm (50 caliber or 0.5 inch) for rifle or pistol, cartridges or 8 gauge for shotshells; and

    (v) Cartridges power devices which are use to project fastening devices. (

    2) Packaging for cartridges, small arms, and cartridges power devices as ORM-D material must be as follows:

    (i) Ammunition must be packed in inside boxes, or in partitions which fit snugly in the outside packaging, or in metal clips;

    (ii) Primers must be protected from accidental initiation;

    (iii) Inside boxes, partitions or metal clips must be packed in securely-closed strong outside packagings;

    (iv) Maximum gross weight is limited to 30 Kg (66 pounds) per package; and

    (v) Cartridges, power devices which are used to project fastening devices and 22 caliber rim-fire cartridges may be packaged loose in strong outside packagings.

    Part 172 (Marking) 172.316 Packagings containing material classed as ORM-D

    (a) Each non-bulk packaging containing a material classed as ORM-D must be marked on at least one side or end with the ORM-D designation immediately following or below the proper shipping name of the material (Cartridges, Small Arms). The ORM designation must be placed within a rectangle that is approximately 6.3 mm (0.25 inches) larger on each side that the designation.

    (b) The marking ORM-D is the certification by the person offering the packaging for transportation that the material is properly described, classed, packaged, marked and labeled (when appropriate) and in proper condition for transportation according to the applicable regulations of this subchapter.

    So, basically you need to label the box on the end as ORM-D inside a square box you have drawn, then print Cartridges, 'Small Arms'; UPS illustration using 'Consumer Commodity'; (change to 'Cartridges, Small Arms') UPS hazardous/restricted items section @ 1-800-554-9964.



    If you do this frequently, you can buy these labels from a label printing company such as stickers.com. If you do this infrequently, you can make your own stickers and print them out on your computer/printer.

    http://www.sticker.com/fragile-warning.html"
  • rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Live ammo has to be shipped by common carrier, also has to be marked with a "ORM D" label that notes it's small arms ammo. No Has Mat fees required at this point in time, though.

    The "ORM D" label might be a deal killer for a lot of folks? A number of years ago I was living in a big city apartment. The UPS guy left the ammo at the managers office. It must of spooked them, as they really kept their distance till I left.
  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,314 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Fedex rules have changed; contact them for the latest if you plan to use them.

    Neal
  • Sooeyman2035Sooeyman2035 Member Posts: 3,226
    edited November -1
    I think that one should hire a lawyer before shipping ammo to abide by these ridiculous lists of regulations.
  • CheechakoCheechako Member Posts: 563 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Shipping ammo via UPS or FedEx has received a lot of attention recently, for some reason. I'm a cartridge collector and I ship and receive ammo all the time. It is no big deal. Very routine as a matter of fact. It has to go Ground. The package has to be marked ORM-D (there will be a new sticker next year). Make sure the recipient is of legal age (that's about the only Federal requirement I know of). Be careful if you're going to ship to one of the States with a lot of restrictions (CA. IL. NY. MA). You may want to avoid those places altogether. Be prepared for sticker shock because it is expensive.

    You'll run into different hubs that will give you trouble because of their own personal politics, or because they don't know their own rules. Don't argue with them. Go to another hub.

    Ray
  • ManygunsManyguns Member Posts: 3,837
    edited November -1
    As far as value goes, see what others are selling it for and if they have any bids. I believe in starting at 1 cent and let it go from there. It seems to encourage more bidding and you should get a fair market price.
    Tom
  • MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member Posts: 9,258 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    the others have most itmes covered but figure $15/20 shipping per box that cuts into the potential bid prices. most ammo from the 40's/50's only sells for $20/30 per box at the gun shows.
  • steve45steve45 Member Posts: 2,843 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ive done some research, 3 of the boxes are Winchester Grizzly Bear box ammo. It seems to bring a premium. One seller here on GB is selling similar stuff and all his have reserves. Ive never used reserve pricing in an auction before. I can see problems selling this type of item for a penny start. I think I'll pick a fixed starting price that my friend agrees with and let it fly for 10 days.
  • rsnyder55rsnyder55 Member Posts: 2,626
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Cheechako
    Shipping ammo via UPS or FedEx has received a lot of attention recently, for some reason. I'm a cartridge collector and I ship and receive ammo all the time. It is no big deal. Very routine as a matter of fact. It has to go Ground. The package has to be marked ORM-D (there will be a new sticker next year). Make sure the recipient is of legal age (that's about the only Federal requirement I know of). Be careful if you're going to ship to one of the States with a lot of restrictions (CA. IL. NY. MA). You may want to avoid those places altogether. Be prepared for sticker shock because it is expensive.

    You'll run into different hubs that will give you trouble because of their own personal politics, or because they don't know their own rules. Don't argue with them. Go to another hub.

    Ray


    In CA, only certain counties and cities have ammo restrictions. For example, I live north of Sacramento about an hour and can receive ammo. In Sacramento you cannot.
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