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.223 vs .221 fireball Rifles
Hawkshaw
Member Posts: 1,016 ✭✭
Ref. the CZ 527
Could you expect either rifle to shoot the Tight groups the .221 is known for ( Sub 3/4". ) All things being equal. .221's are just about impossible to find. THX Keith
Could you expect either rifle to shoot the Tight groups the .221 is known for ( Sub 3/4". ) All things being equal. .221's are just about impossible to find. THX Keith
Comments
I hated my issue M-16 so I bought a Remington 700 Varmint Special in 223. All I could get in Germany was factory Remington ammo and maybe some issue ball. Only factory Remington 120 gr for my second rifle a Carl Gustav in 7mm Rem Mag. The only range I could use on weekend was 300m. Target were like a quarter. The armorer guy would give me dented 20 M-16 magazines for free. I would hang several from strings, swat them to get them swinging, then hike back to the firing line and shoot them with my rifles while they were still moving, offhand. Great fun. I paid for the 7 mag with bets.
Once home I found a good load for the mag. With a bench on a good day at 100 yards, I needed to put tape over the hole in the paper or you would not believe that second round went thru that first hole. The 223 was a different story. Best it would with my loads was a little worse than the factory Remington ammo. I tried like 5 different presses, 3 different dies sets, every primer, powder and bullet combo I could find. I was so disgusted that I gave it to a buddy because he said he would by the factory ammo.
Last I was out with the old 222 (8 years ago) off a picnic table at 350 yards the bullet strike was just left or right of the cross hair - really would have liked a half click. Anyway clay birds sitting on the bank were toast. In the mean time 2 cataract surgeries, shots in the left eye, loss of lower right leg and the big toe on left foot. 3 weeks ago they YAG lasered my right eye. Good as new so to speak. I still like to shoot but I'm way out of practice. I can tell you for a fact my balance is off due to feet and some kind of brain/nerve issue.
added The range was at Panzer Kaserne. 1975-76 There were 2 or 3 lanes. They had these big tower archways 10 m or more tall (I know I could have driven my duece and half with the signal shelter on its back threw the opening) every like every 50 m or so besides the big berms that ran the length of the lane. It was sort of like shooting in a tunnel. The back stop had an overhang and there was a gated walkway connecting the to the outside and the lanes. I would tie the strings to rocks and throw them up on the roof. I think the pendulum was about 25' long and I'm sure the cross wind help keep them moving too.
When I was in running on the range was forbidden, however "there was no speed limit on walking". Oh to 19 and in good physical condition again.
Before going in I and a buddy spent as much time as we could for 4 years (70- 74) out in the local National Guard tank training and Air Force bombing and gunnery range. The perimeter road for the area was 45 miles around the circle of the ranges. In that area I can't tell you how many belts of 7.62 I pick up and shot away. I could drape them across my shoulders and they would almost drag in the dirt. They were from Huey's or the coax M-60 on the tanks.
My favorite way to shoot it up was at the APC's which were the target at the a few of the tank ranges. I paced the distance to them at 3000 yards from the asphalt firing line. They used 90's and 105 at these ranges. The powdered ground around targets made it easy to see your shot. If the wind was right a hit was audible. The rifle of choice was a Remington 700 BDL in 308.
I can tell you that we bought a nice older Chevy pickup with spent 50 cal brass we picked. At that time the scrap value a nickel a piece. I humped lots of gunny sacks of brass out to the road besides packing my rifle and water. Our summer limit was 5 days at a time due to water.
I can also tell you pulled 5010 powder from the live 50's will shoot in a 30-06, not near as nice as the $2/# H-4831 from the store. That rifle was a Savage 110 E. CCI primers were less than $5/m. Cast bullets were almost free.
I had a lot of trigger time back then. Dad raised me to shoot and we didn't do no spray and pray.
added During that 4 year span part of training was jack lighting rabbits. Standing in the back of the moving pickup shooting running bunnies with a rifle. I also shot birds out of the air with a rifle. At times I would hunt bunnies with a 1911. Once flushed I would run after them, jumping over sage brush and shooting while moving. I used only the last go brass (split necks or wore out primer pockets) for those times as it was too hard to go back and find the brass.
.223 is such a universal caliber now. With high quality target ammo, and components being available. I believe it would be best to go that route. With a new CZ, heavy barrel, target rifle, in .223, you would be way ahead, vis a vis anything in .221. My 2 cents.
I am so glad you brought this up. Looking at a 223 is an option, but you need to be more twist rate specific for the loads you intend to shoot. Yes, a 223 can shoot all weights of well constructed bullets thru a 1 in 7 twist, but favors the heavies.
...and yes, you can over stabilize a projectile, not to mention that some of the thinner jacketed lighter rounds, will explode in mid flight from centrifugal G forces, from a fast twist rate, or rotational speed...the higher the velocity, the higher the RPM's too. If you figure a 1 in 8 twist rate, and 3200 FPS, that is over 288,000 RPM's.
So that said, the question is what do you want to do with it? Light bullets thru a slower twist, heavier bullets thru a faster twist...It is up to you.
If you want a Fireball, and do not mind a single shot, Match Grade Machine will be happy to spin you up a barrel for your T/C Encore, or Contender. If you want a Bolt gun that will drive concerted tacks, then Look to Cooper...its not a simple answer, but we need to know what your desired end result is.
Something to think about.
That's a joke, right? Those "swinging targets" would have stopped swinging long before a person could "hike" 300 M.