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45/70 Mauser?
Manyguns
Member Posts: 3,837
I have the urge to build a custom Mauser. I have a Turk that's been sitting around for a while and am considering using that. Has anyone done this conversion? I'm thinking Mannlicher stock, too. Any special problems with this conversion?
Thanks, Tom
Thanks, Tom
Comments
Do yourself a favor and pick another cartridge that doesn't have a rim like the .45-70.
It's the rimmed cartridge and lack of appropriate geometry and slant magazines that cause this project to be a problem. The Siamese Mauser was the best model to select for the .45-70 but these rifles have gotten to be so expensive these days that it becomes cost prohibitive to use one for a conversion.
These conversions have been done since the first American shipped a Mauser home from Europe during and after WWII. It is the biggest waste of time and money let alone a good Mauser. This is excepting of course, the conversions done using the .45 ACP as cartridge in a Mauser. Really dumb.
Several companies attempted this conversion commercially with Gibbs Rifle Co. leading the pack for the number of Mausers trashed. A knowledgeable and talented gunsmith can perform the conversion given enough time and money but the average amateur would be better off choosing another form of torture to occupy their time.
Best.
Tom
"I do have a very good, reasonable, gunsmith."
If you really feel the need to do this to a perfectly good Mauser, run it by your gunsmith to get his input. Just be sure he knows a lot about Mausers and doing this type of conversion. It's not nearly as simple as switching barrels to another chamber and touching up the rail for feeding. If he's not bald now, he might be when he finishes.
Best.
LOL! Thanks, I was looking for good advice and this is the place to get it. I'll consider another caliber. I like larger calibers. Any suggestions?
Thanks, Tom
The problems with large caliber cartridges in modern rifles is that they either need to be rimmed (.45-70), belted (.458 Win. Mag.) or larger case dimensions which will allow for enough shoulder diameter for proper headspace.
We've covered rimmed.
Belted cases work just fine in Mausers so long as the gunsmith understands feeding and magazine design. This has been a normal conversion for the Mauser since the advent of the belted .375 H&H cartridge. The rails, feed ramp, magazine box/spring/follower, bolt face and extractor all get adjusted.
Larger cases will run the gamut from the belted to the .500 Jeffery and the .416 Rigby.
Currently though, Ruger has come up with a design that uses a rimless bottleneck, standard length (2.56") case that will accommodate up to the .416 bullet easily. This is based on what is now the .375 Ruger cartridge. Originally the design utilized a .416" bullet but Ruger opted to step down to the .375" diameter to capture more of the market. You can neck this case up to .416 and load away. This case uses a .532" diameter rim and does not use a belt. It's easy to fit and get to feed for the average gunsmith.
.416 Ruger (.375 Ruger case)
Z-Hat produces brass and loaded ammunition for his line of proprietary cartridges name the Hawk line. His line goes up to the .411 Hawk which is based on the 'Basic' -'06 case that is longer and straighter than off the shelf '06 cases.
You could neck up one of the short magnum cases and use them for the .416 bullets again without resorting to a belt.
Then there is the .450 Marlin which is a short BELTED Magnum case from Hornady.
If you don't mind a little smaller big bore, there is the 10.75 x 68 Mauser or the .376 Steyr...
There are others I'm sure but this is a sampling of possibilities.
Best.
Tom
It was the H&H belted magnum case at 2.0" straight, .45 caliber.
The intent was to provide for a bolt action equivalent of the .45-90 with 300-400 grain bullets. Of course the loads could be souped up a lot in a bolt action relative to a lever action, if you just wanted to get kicked.
It is covered in CotW because the original author, Frank C. Barnes, designed it. His rifle was a Remington, I don't know how much more (or less) trouble it would be to get to run in a Mauser.
Don't most of the Turkish Mausers have small barrel shanks?
Does that matter if you are chambering to a large diameter case but (maybe) not loading to absolute maximum pressure? I don't know, but you should.
When these rifle types/rounds collided in the summer of 1898 it was pretty clear which one came out on top. Even though it lost the war. In one battle, we lost as many men as the Spanish had on that hill. Mausers on line in trenches made the Americans think they were up against machine guns. The plodding old 45-70 no longer had place in modern warfare. That is one round that truly showed it's obsolescence in combat in a miserable way.
For some reason, while Europe was obsessed with rounds that were capable of 2000m, we were buying rifles off the shelves that were accurate to 200 yds.[?][?] Because the lever-gun was king here.
My point in going off on this tangent is that the .45-70 never really worked that well in most any repeater. But, they are fun to shoot. So find a rifle that round it was designed to fit in. The Mauser was designed for repeating high performance rounds. The only lever-gun that ever came close to competing with a Mauser was the Savage Model 1893. Which was originally produced in 1894 and re-named with some modifications to 1899/99. But even that didn't really compete ballistically with the Mauser design until almost WWI with the introduction of the .250-3000. So find a high pressure round to go in that gun. It's well worth it, when you get that done right.
I hope that helps, I'm not sure you want to be steered in those directions. But, as nn pointed out, it's a tough conversion for a round that could go some other rifles much more easily.
Thanks, Tom