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Difference between 22LR and 22 Mag?

dreherdreher Member Posts: 8,880 ✭✭✭✭
edited August 2013 in Ask the Experts
My oldest daughter called me tonight asking a gun question. Am I a lucky man or what?[:D] She has her Ohio CCW permit and likes the Ruger LCR. She asked what a 22 Mag is and how it is different from the 22 LR as she has shot lots of 22 LRs over the years.

I gave her the short answer of the 22 Mag case is longer and thru a rifle barrel much more powerful but I had no idea how much difference there would be in speed and energy thru a 2" barrel.

I tried Google but couldn't find the answer. Anyone know much difference there is?

Comments

  • llamallama Member Posts: 2,637 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Pistol velocities with 22wmr are about that of 22lr from a rifle - 1100-1200 fps

    Not to mention you can deafen your attacker even if you miss... it is LOUD from a pistol

    Also, the bullets are better constructed with a real jacket instead of a wash, so you get better penetration.
  • rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The June 2013 issue of the "American Rifleman", had a article about the Ruger LCR in 22 Mag. The 2 most effective cartridges were the Speer Gold Dot @ a muzzle velocity of 1187 FPS, with a expansion diameter of .390. And the Hornandy Critical Defense, muzzle velocity of 1098 FPS, expansion diameter of .330. But the Hornandy weighs 5 grains more, and penetrated 2 1/2" further into the ordnance gelatin than the Gold Dot.
  • dreherdreher Member Posts: 8,880 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Good info but I would like to compare the actual velocity and energy between the 2 22s from a 2" barrel. Anybody got a link to the right web site??

    I told her to look at GB to check prices before she buys anything. My auction side "handle" is Bunnyman. I told her if she decides to bid on anything please use Bunnyman's daughter as her "handle".[:D]

    I wonder how many fathers and daughters have both done a GB purchase???
  • Riomouse911Riomouse911 Member Posts: 3,492 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Maybe "Ballistics by the inch" will have it on their site, I think they have the two on there.

    22 WMR is an elongated and more powerful version of the old 22 Winchester rim fire. It uses a jacketed bullet instead of the .22 lr heel based lead or copper washed slug, so there is a wider variety of bullets loaded in the WMR than the lr.

    In a handgun it is comparible to the .22 lr from a rifle, and yes, it is loud from a handgun compared to the Henry rifle i just bought. I have a 5 1/2 in Ruger single six convertible and a 4 in Taurus in 22 WMR that I like to shoot when I get a chance, it is a fun round.
  • rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dreher
    Good info but I would like to compare the actual velocity and energy between the 2 22s from a 2" barrel. Anybody got a link to the right web site??

    I told her to look at GB to check prices before she buys anything. My auction side "handle" is Bunnyman. I told her if she decides to bid on anything please use Bunnyman's daughter as her "handle".[:D]

    I wonder how many fathers and daughters have both done a GB purchase???










    The site at this link has a lot of different articles, giving data on various .22 cartridges both LR and mags.

    http://www.southernoutdoorlife.com/mouseguns/amball.htm



    From barrels of a similar length, i.e. 2". The mag would have 100-150 FPS advantage.

    I've shot a lot of bunnies over the years with a .22 pistol. I have found that a lot of the hunting type HP's, don't expand well from a short barreled pistol. The best luck I have had is with the Winchester 555 or 333 hollow points. The comparatively large flat nose, with a soft lead, hp bullet. Seems to yield better results than more hyped bullets such as stingers.
  • 11b6r11b6r Member Posts: 16,584 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Also, despite both being CALLED a .22, the .22 magnum has a large diameter cartridge case, since the bullet is seated inside the case, and is not a heel seated bullet like the LR.
  • beantownshootahbeantownshootah Member Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dreher
    My oldest daughter called me tonight asking a gun question. Am I a lucky man or what?[:D] She has her Ohio CCW permit and likes the Ruger LCR. She asked what a 22 Mag is and how it is different from the 22 LR as she has shot lots of 22 LRs over the years.

    I gave her the short answer of the 22 Mag case is longer and thru a rifle barrel much more powerful but I had no idea how much difference there would be in speed and energy thru a 2" barrel.

    I tried Google but couldn't find the answer. Anyone know much difference there is?

    Its a good question, and the real answer may surprise you.

    See here for the real world testing you're looking for (and note, that you have to look at bullet WEIGHT here. . .lighter bullets, obviously, go faster):
    http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html
    http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html

    From a short 2" bbl the standard solid 40 grain .22LR will yield about 850 fps. Obviously the exact velocity will vary not only between different brands of ammo, but also between different types of guns, and even potentially different individual guns of the same type.

    With the same caveats, from a 2" bbl a typical 40 grain .22 magnum will only yield about 900fps.

    Yup, you read that right. .22 magnum is only marginally more powerful than .22LR from really short barrels to the point where I don't think the difference in ballistic performance is meaningful at all.

    The reason is that .22 magnum is designed for use in rifles and needs some barrel length to work up to speed. It simply doesn't do well in short barrels.

    Also, with non-revolver barrels, the actual cartridge length is measured as part of the overall barrel length, and the longer 22 magnum cartridge takes up more non-functional barrel breech space, limiting useful velocity compared to length out of really short barrels.

    More simply, a .22 magnum is just over an inch long. Drop that into a 2" auto or derringer barrel and you've really only got ONE inch of actual rifled barrel that the bullet will fly through before it exits the muzzle. .22LR cartridge is only .61 inch long, giving you another 0.4" of functional barrel, or 40% more from a short barreled gun.

    If you've ever actually seen a .22 magnum round fired from a 2" revolver you'd know that these make a nice loud pop, and a fairly impressive muzzle flash. . .that's from all the unburned powder being burned OUTSIDE the gun AFTER the bullet has left (ie being wasted).

    So in my opinion, it simply doesn't make sense to buy a 2" bbl .22 magnum gun, when .22LR ones offer almost as good (ie bad) ballistic performance AND less unwanted muzzle flash at lower cost.

    Note if you simply increase the barrel length to 4 or 5 inches the .22 magnum does do a lot better. In that case, as mentioned above, the .22 magnum will get about 200 fps more muzzle velocity than .22LR with similar 40 grain bullets. IMO, it probably still doesn't make sense for most people to choose a full sized .22 magnum handgun for defense, but that's for different reasons and a different discussion.

    Also for discussion, the exact same factors come into play with .38 special vs. 357 magnum. Like the .22 magnum, the .357 magnum also needs barrel length to get its higher velocities, and performance out of a short 2" barrel is barely better than an ordinary .38 with most of the potential of the round being converted into an expensive unwanted fireball at the muzzle.
  • mango tangomango tango Member Posts: 3,833 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by llama
    Pistol velocities with 22wmr are about that of 22lr from a rifle - 1100-1200 fps

    Not to mention you can deafen your attacker even if you miss... it is LOUD from a pistol

    Also, the bullets are better constructed with a real jacket instead of a wash, so you get better penetration.


    I shot 22 mags out of a High Standard Derringer without ear protection, my ears were ringing for a day! Yes, very loud!
  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Not all .22 mags are created equally. Some have heavier bullets & some have different powders. There are those that are made to take advantage of longer barrels & there are those that have very fast burning powders.
    A fast burning powder & and a heavy bullet can be very practical in shorter barrels.
    One site to check is the North American Arms website. You will be able to find charts that list a variety of rounds & how they perform in a variety of barrel lengths. There was also an article in a recent American Rifleman magazine that provided similar information.
  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dreher
    Good info but I would like to compare the actual velocity and energy between the 2 22s from a 2" barrel. Anybody got a link to the right web site??

    I told her to look at GB to check prices before she buys anything. My auction side "handle" is Bunnyman. I told her if she decides to bid on anything please use Bunnyman's daughter as her "handle".[:D]

    I wonder how many fathers and daughters have both done a GB purchase???









    dreher

    For what it is worth, and for self defense, consider the 22 WMR the better of the two for reliability. That is one of the worst sounds one can hear, is a gun going click, when you need it to go bang.

    Also, consider that the 22 WMR. is one of LE's most feared rounds, as it can penetrate more layers of soft body armor, than a 9mm, 38, 357, 40, or 45.

    This being the case, I would not even give the 22LR a look over for serious self defense, unless, it was the only round I had on the list, and then it is just barely better than taking a knife to a gunfight.

    Best
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