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C and R hassle

upjumtddeblupjumtddebl Member Posts: 363 ✭✭✭
edited September 2013 in Ask the Experts
Sold a older 1950s Great Western revolver on the auction side to a fellow in Florida I made it Clear that it ships FFL to FFL instead he emails a C and R to an address in MN saying this guy will "check it out for him" this seems like a bad idea and I'm going to tell him FFL or deals off but I'm interested in other opinions Thanks

Comments

  • stegsteg Member Posts: 871 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Don't take a chance! Stick by your guns. You never know when a shill shows their ugly face on the internet!
  • mrs102mrs102 Member Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Not only bad idea, probably illegal. C&R cannot accept a firearm for someone else. In my opinion that steps over the line of "in the business".
  • slumlord44slumlord44 Member Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a C&R also. Any gun has to go directly to the name and address on the C&R. The C&R holder cannot buy it to "Check it out" for someone else or to buy it for someone else. Strictly illegal.
  • rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Been through this a bunch, when I was still doing the auctions. The bottom line it's your personal property, and your selling it on your terms and conditions.

    As you specifically stated in your auction, that it was going to be transferred between FFL's. This guy doesn't have a leg to stand on.

    Give him a choice, either buy the revolver on your terms. Or get his money back.

    Unfortunately from my personal experiences, ( more than once). These guys don't take kindly to not getting their way. They will threaten to give you negative reports, and bad mouth you on the auction. If you don't go through with the deal.
  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by steg
    Don't take a chance! Stick by your guns. You never know when a shill shows their ugly face on the internet!


    If it was a SHILL, it wold be tied to the seller, not buyer.

    There is an FFL easy check, where you can check the FFL number, to make sure it is good. A C&R, is an FFL, just a different class. It requires that hte gun be 50 years old, or older, and in original condition. It basically revolves around collectability.

    So if your revolver meets that criteria, then check out the C&R FFL number, and if it is good, then no problems.

    quote:I have a C&R also. Any gun has to go directly to the name and address on the C&R. The C&R holder cannot buy it to "Check it out" for someone else or to buy it for someone else. Strictly illegal.

    The seller, can ship it directly to the C&R. What the C&R does with it, providing the C&R is legit, is no skin off the seller's backside. Like all FFL's, the C&R has to keep a log book. If the firearm is newer than 1898, then it must be transferred to a non FFL, by the means of an 01 FFL. But again, that is on the C&R's end.

    Best
  • Spider7115Spider7115 Member Posts: 29,702 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I wouldn't do it. It might be a "straw purchase" attempt by an unqualified buyer to avoid completing a 4473.

    If the C&R isn't the actual buyer, insist on a Type 01 FFL.
  • upjumtddeblupjumtddebl Member Posts: 363 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    well the ATF EZ-check does not verify C@Rs and the buyer claims it is a C@R gun as GW went out of biz in 1961 even though other sources say 1964 plus the C@R and the buyer are in two different states with the buyers address being a PO box and the gun has been modified with a fanning hammer and maybe a different barrel. bottem line is I specified a FFL to FFL transfer and nothing else. as far as I can tell just because a gun is C@R eligable does not mean I have to sell it that way if I feel it is in my best interest to require an FFL Wish me luck
  • chiefrchiefr Member Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree. do not ship. It is clearly against the law.
    It would be legal to ship only to the person and the address listed on the C&R.

    As a C&R myself, I would never ask a seller to do such. When I pay for a C&R firearm, I have gun shipped to my address as listed on the C&R, the method of payment will have my address on it and my address is same on GB. If the seller wants other ID, I will provide.

    On the otherhand, as a buyer, my greatest frustration is the number of sellers that will not accept C&Rs.
  • competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,696 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by chiefr

    On the otherhand, as a buyer, my greatest frustration is the number of sellers that will not accept C&Rs.


    I think sellers would feel better about shipping to C&R license holders if there was some sort of system, like the EZ-Check system for 01-FFLs, that a seller could use to easily verify that a C&R license and address is legit.

    I'm not aware that there has ever been any problem like counterfeit C&R licenses, but with today's printer/scanner technology it would be fairly easy to do. One can get some pretty "modern" firearms that are 50-years-old and C&R qualified, so there could be some incentive for a criminal to fake a C&R license.

    Specific to the original poster: I'd agree with the others and would not ship in the situation you've described. Anyone who is into collectable firearms (and has a C&R license) is going to know -- probably a few -- 01-FFL holders who will do a transfer for him for a nominal fee.

    If your buyer wants an 01-FFL holder gunsmith to "check out" the pistol for him, I'd say you're fine shipping it to that licensee, but I don't think a C&R license is supposed to be used the way they're using it.

    If your buyer gets "nasty" toward you, you might want to ask him if he wants you to talk with the ATF about his friend (I'm assuming the C&R holder in MN is a friend) accepting firearms to "check them out" for others using his C&R license. (Save your e-mail exchanges with him in case he's a jerk.)
  • Riomouse911Riomouse911 Member Posts: 3,492 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had a C&R, and I, too had both milsurp firearms I purchased with it shipped to my address. It has long expired, and I have not renewed it.

    I say you are in the right not shipping it to a) the non-buyer who is not a licensed firearms dealer, and 2) outside of the FFL shipping specifications you set forth from the get-go.

    IMHO, there must be some reason the buyer is avoiding the FFL requirement you stated. It may merely be financial, trying to save a few bucks on the transfer fee....or it may be something more than that. Stick to your guns on this one.
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