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Late war arisaka with early bolt help

brunette63brunette63 Member Posts: 138 ✭✭✭
edited September 2013 in Ask the Experts
So I have a late war arisaka"crude" body pretty much but it does have any early bolt on it. Now I've heard a bunch of people say don't fire because it will explode but I've also heard people say that if back spacing is ok then it should be fine. I still like to clean it even though I've never fired it because I love the rifle itself due to it's history. The bore is actually in really good condition with rifling and is shiny with no hint if corrosion but the outside is crude machined with really from what I've read shouldn't effect it other then it bit being beautiful. But I would really enjoy firing it and maybe even re bluing it because I don't plan on ever selling it and would like to keep it from rotting away. So any advice on checking spacing of opinions are welcome , I love the ww2 rifle and it hurts to see the ammo in the safe just sitting there

Comments

  • rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,649 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Take it to a competent gunsmith. For inspection, headspacing and test firing. Mismatched bolt isn't a positive as far as safety is concerned. I once owned a Japanese Naval training rifle that was made of cast iron. It had a functioning bolt from a standard military rifle in it.
  • MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member, Moderator Posts: 9,961 ******
    edited November -1
    IF the 'tang' isn't part of the receiver the rifle MAY be safe to fire after you have a gunsmith check HEAD SPACE. make sure the gunsmith has the proper guages to do this.
  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    Excessive headspace can be dealt with if you handload by fireforming and neck sizing only. The question is: 1. Is there excessive headspace? 2. If so, why? If it is because of a mismatched bolt but the recesses in the receiver show no signs of setback, you're ok to go; if the receiver is soft- possible for a last ditch- then you could have lug setback and it would, imo, be unsafe to fire.

    You can check for the latter by taking the firing pin out and inserting the bolt body only, and see if, when closed, there is excessive foward/back slop if you push the bolt handle back and forth. Some slight movement is ok, but any more than a slight wiggle, let's say more than a mm or so, is signs that something is off.

    Personally I'd shoot it from a tire and see if the bolt handle opened smartly, first with a low pressure cast lead load, then a standard jacketed load, then a max load, then a grain or two over max. If no issues are seen, I'd pronounce it good to go. A gunsmith can only tell you how it looks and if it headspaces well, he can't comment on the heat treating the metal received, whereas a remote firing test will verify that. Ideally you would check headspace both before and after firing.
  • brunette63brunette63 Member Posts: 138 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There's a little back and fourth movement and none when bolt is chsmbered
  • 45er45er Member Posts: 245 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Howdy brunette,

    You're going about it right-- first get it checked for safe firing ability from a 'smith.

    Bore is shiny because it is chrome-lined. And indicates it is a Type-99 in 7.7 caliber. (Unless been re-chambered, as another good reason to have checked over by a 'smith).
    Also the chrome indicates it is not extreme last ditch war time production, as when the chrome was dropped, and quality really went down the tubes. Time lines are out there, but hard to find when certain changes were made?
    The folks who say "it will blow up", as an absolute, perhaps do not realize that the Arisaka's were thee stongest bolt action of WW-2. Post-war tests, (by Col. Atkins if memory serves?), with extreme over-loaded ammo show that the barrel will be blown off before the reciever itself fails. Quite impressive, that.
    BUT, an individual specimen?-- I am not qualified to comment, nor anyone on a forum can be, without hands on looking at and knowing what they are looking for.

    Your rifle, of course, yet myself, I'd leave the "looks" of it as is, with only cleaning up to preserve, not restore. It earned every ding and blemish it shows as a truly remarkable war horse. Meaning especially leaving alone that Japanese red varnish that will show a mile away if been re-done, and the bluing as well.

    All be it a sleeper in monetary value compared to 98's, '03's, etc, but has of late gained a bit more recognition in collecting corners.
    EDIT Can you post here the Arsenal, Serial, and Series number? This will help tell approximately when was produced, and what other modifications from original to look for as the war went on.
    Still with the chrome barrel, I tend to think it is not a last ditch rifle. As this was changed approx. mid-way through the war.
    45er
  • brunette63brunette63 Member Posts: 138 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ok I'll have to find a gunsmith who knows his stuff because I've don't the research on it serial number arsenal and year for the rifle just need to figure out the bolt . Unlike the dings and dents of the cut corner wood plate with nails and unfurnished stock I'm just worried about the weathered barrel and receiver
  • GrasshopperGrasshopper Member Posts: 16,704 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    As a one time Arisaka collector,,I would not want to shoot the late war ones. simply because of the manufacturing variables-poor quality ect.
  • FatstratFatstrat Member Posts: 9,147
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Grasshopper
    As a one time Arisaka collector,,I would not want to shoot the late war ones. simply because of the manufacturing variables-poor quality ect.

    As another former Arisaka collector, I agree. The reasons are several.
    1st. As the war went increasingly against Japan and they lost control of the seas and skies, they had much difficulty getting war materials into a country w/few natural resources. That caused a steel shortage and an eventual decline in the quality of steel. There is a significant difference in the quality of the steel between early and late war T-99's.
    2nd. U.S. bombing of Japanese cities and war industries lead to the creation of "cottage industries". Bombed Arsenals moved salvagable equipment to countryside barns and sheds. Forcing a general streamlining of manufacturing capabilities. They simply didn't have the capability to focus on quality as they had before.
    3rd. The insane Japanese "Banzai" charges with it's incredible waste of soldiers lead to an ever increasing daft. Until it got to the point that military had drafted most of their experienced labor force. Leaving the cottage industry "factories" to be worked by inexperienced women AND children.
    Inexperienced labor producing arms on worn out machinery in unsuitable conditions out of sub-standard materials.
    4th and last but not least. Fed Honeycutt, author of "Military Rifles of Japan". The 1st and in most collectors opinions best authority of Arisaka's. Recounted having owned and fired a "Last Ditch" Arisaka for many years. Until one day it blew up while allowing a friend to fire it. After that, Fred decided that last ditch Arisaka's were just too risky to fire. And I believe it.
  • brunette63brunette63 Member Posts: 138 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If I was looking for one that I could fire , year model etc what should I get
  • FatstratFatstrat Member Posts: 9,147
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by brunette63
    If I was looking for one that I could fire , year model etc what should I get

    Any of not "Last Ditch" configuration. That will "generally" get you up around 1944 MFG. The early T-99's are best. Mid war "Transitional" models are still safe. A good way to tell is if it has adjustable rear sights. The ones w/fixed rear are Last Ditch.
    Of course all original with matching numbers is optimum. Mostly original with mismatched bolt is usually OK. These rifles were made with extremely strong receivers/actions and loose tolerances, Even matching bolt guns often fail headspace tests. But most, even mismatched bolt, will still fire safely. Gunwriter Col. Askins did tests after WW-2 to try to blow Arisaka's up. And found it nearly impossible (except last ditch). He overcharged cases, fired oversize bullets. Most survived w/little to no damage.
    An old collectors trick of determining rifle safety condition is to tie it a tire and fire it with a string. Listen for odd report, check cases for damage. Mild bulging is common. Excessive bulging or cracking means an unsafe gun.
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