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Good quality Bayonet for AR?

BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
edited October 2013 in Ask the Experts
Anyone have experience with these items? I am looking for a brand name and model that will double as a good knife, not just a big pig sticker. The ones I have run across did not have a manufacturers name on them. Thanks in advance

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    dcs shootersdcs shooters Member Posts: 10,969
    edited November -1
    I have one that looks like a AK-47 type [;)] No markings at all for it, sterile[}:)] Like these two on the auction side [;)][;)]

    http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=370458228

    http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=370837469

    pix206126047.jpg
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    charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 6,579 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
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    beantownshootahbeantownshootah Member Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My undertstanding is the best quality knife steel is too hard/brittle for optimal use as a bayonet. Most bayonets are made from softer/more flexible steel that will hold up to repeated stabbing, but won't hold a super-fine edge.

    So typically these are some sort of compromise.

    Anyway, I asked this question a few months ago, and for what its worth this is what I got:

    http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=590929

    Again, my take on this is that if you're looking for a combination knife/bayonet, knife quality probably takes precedent over bayonet quality, because you're probably a *LOT* more likely to use the thing as a knife then actually stab anyone while mounted on your gun.

    Edit, quote Sandwarrior, below:
    quote:For all intents and purposes I think bayonet work is a waste of time anyhow, long or short blade with any weapon. They are simply too clumsy. The pistol grip is a non-issue as it is not used in bayonet training. Nor is it in the way. Historical glorification of bayonet fights is what gets people thinking they are effective. At best they were less than 50% effective when all order of battle had broken down. So, one would have to ask specifically what it is needed for? Decoration, I'll buy that. Usefulness, I won't. My feeling is if you need to ramp up something, ramp up on a hand-to-hand style of fighting, knife fighting, and especially pistol use and fighting.I agree with you that bayonets are MOSTLY useless, which is to say they've of very limited value. Hand to hand training or more pistol training probably are more valuable, but I don't think this is really an "either/or" situation, especially if you're a civilian.

    In my opinion, there are three legit reasons for a bayonet on a defensive rifle in a close quarters combat or home defense scenario:

    a. Its visually intimidating. I wouldn't entirely underestimate that effect. If someone sees that you have a bayonet on your gun, they're going to assume either that you are ex-military and that you've got weapons training, or (alternatively) that you're bats#$t crazy. Either way, they're probably going to less likely to do something that would require you to use the rifle, and that's a good thing. Some people are just more afraid of knives than guns.

    b. Again, acting as visual deterrent, fixed bayonet reduces the chance of someone charging you if your gun jams, while you're reloading, or generally trying to snatch the gun away. IMO, this is probably the best "legit" use.

    If the gun does malfunction or you run dry on ammo, I think having a bayonet already fixed is a lot better than standing there with your d#$k in your hand. We all know about the 7 yd drill where the baddie charges you and you don't have enough time to draw your pistol before they get close enough to hit you. Same is true of a sheathed knife.

    Having the thing already mounted on the gun in your hand is WAY faster than having to drop your gun and draw it from a sheath, and and (arguably) its more effective as a weapon on the longer gun than in your hand.

    c. Bayonet is another option as a weapon if you're in a situation where firing your rifle isn't optimal. Perhaps you're indoors, there are friendly people around or behind the baddie, for tactical reasons you'd prefer to remain quiet, etc.


    Edit #2:
    quote:Glock pistol bayonet.
    Again, *nearly* useless, but has a few potential uses:

    a. (Main theoretical use) Makes it harder for someone to grab the gun out of your hand, and acts as immediate in-hand backup weapon if you run dry, get a jam, changing mags, etc.
    b. (Main actual use) talking point/ha ha value at gun range. Plus it annoys the crap out of gun haters.
    c. Increases intimidation factor (or maybe causes opponent to fall to ground laughing. . .either way, you're ahead).
    d. Annoys the crap out of gun haters (did I mention that already?).
    e. Extra weight up front reduces muzzle flip.
    f. Bayonet will attach to rail on some carbines/rifles.
    g. Reduces incentive to "Mexican carry" by user! [;)]

    Edit #3:
    quote:In the world of real crime and prevention, "SCARING" a real criminal isn't going to work. If he knows he can charge you without getting shot, he'll charge you because he'll no doubt be able to see you have not a clue how to handle a bayonet equipped firearm. Visual deterrents only count if you have proof that they work. In tight quarters you'll look even worse trying to bring it into play.
    With due respect, if I'm holding a fixed bayonet in ready position, I don't think you're going to be so eager to charge me, and if you try it anyway, I think there is a reasonably good chance you'll regret it. In practice, I'd say most criminals or civilians have never seen proper bayonet technique and don't really know what it is. They can tell if you're "serious" or not, but that's a function of you, not the attachment on your gun.

    Obviously a bayonet isn't some magical device; again, I said it had "limited" value ("limited" being a little more than zero). Of course you have to know what you're doing to use one correctly, same as the actual rifle, and not everyone does. And of course not everyone is going to be intimidated by one. Some attackers are on drugs and fearless, or even overtly suicidal.

    But not every threat comes from a hardened criminal, either. Having a bayonet on the gun isn't going to make it LESS intimidating or INCREASE the chance that someone is going to want to rush you or grab the gun! Even if it only works as a deterrent some of the time, that's still something.

    By definition the ONLY use of a bayonet is in close quarters, right? I fully agree that in cramped spaces you may not be able to use the bayonet, but in those same conditions, you'll probably have a pretty hard time using the rifle as a rifle, either.

    Here's the bottom line: most of the time you use your rifle, you won't "need" the bayonet. In practice, most of the time you bring out the gun you won't be shooting it. If you are shooting it, it probably won't jam, and you probably won't run out of ammo. If someone bad manages to get within bayonet distance, ideally you'd shoot them with the gun, not actually use the bayonet. The question really is, if you do hear hear that "click", would you rather HAVE a bayonet on the end of your gun, or NOT have one?
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    sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Find an M7 bayonet that was designed for an AR. The steel is 'ordnance steel'. Which is very strong and springy, which makes it tough. They do not hold a fine razor edge so well, but do hold a good working edge well enough.

    Edit: Added

    quote:Originally posted by v35
    The AR is too short and clumsy for bayonet work with a knife sized bayonet. A pistol grip is wrong for bayonet use.
    It has to be very much less effective for defensive work than an equal length short bayonet held at arm's length, which is what you'll have.
    The British short bullpup with bayonet is the ultimate joke along with the Glock pistol bayonet.
    Because of length and sturdiness, the SKS with folding triangular bayonet is the only modern rifle after the Garand that makes sense for bayonet work.


    For all intents and purposes I think bayonet work is a waste of time anyhow, long or short blade with any weapon. They are simply too clumsy. The pistol grip is a non-issue as it is not used in bayonet training. Nor is it in the way. Historical glorification of bayonet fights is what gets people thinking they are effective. At best they were less than 50% effective when all order of battle had broken down. So, one would have to ask specifically what it is needed for? Decoration, I'll buy that. Usefulness, I won't. My feeling is if you need to ramp up something, ramp up on a hand-to-hand style of fighting, knife fighting, and especially pistol use and fighting.

    Edit: Added,

    Beantown,

    In the world of real crime and prevention, "SCARING" a real criminal isn't going to work. If he knows he can charge you without getting shot, he'll charge you because he'll no doubt be able to see you have not a clue how to handle a bayonet equipped firearm. Visual deterrents only count if you have proof that they work. In tight quarters you'll look even worse trying to bring it into play.
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    v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The AR is too short and clumsy for bayonet work with a knife sized bayonet. A pistol grip is wrong for bayonet use.
    It has to be very much less effective for defensive work than an equal length short bayonet held at arm's length, which is what you'll have.
    The British short bullpup with bayonet is the ultimate joke along with the Glock pistol bayonet.
    Because of length and sturdiness, the SKS with folding triangular bayonet is the only modern rifle after the Garand that makes sense for bayonet work.
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