In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Options
Cylinder Rotates Backward?
tr fox
Member Posts: 13,856
I was fooling with some of my revolvers and I noticed something odd about most of my Taurus revolvers. At least the .38 special bobbed hammer 2 in and the model 94 .22 9 shot. If you pull the trigger, hold the trigger back and then put reverse pressure on the cylinder as you release the trigger, the cylinder will disengage momenterily from the cylinder stop pin and will actually rotate in reverse.
Now this is very unlikely to ever happen unless I make it happen. Because there is only a milli-second as the trigger moves back to its normal, ready position, that the cylinder stop will move enough to allow the cylinder to disengage. In other words, in the real world of actually firing the revolvers it is highly unlikely for this situation to ever occur on its own. However, I am not comfortable with this situation.
I checked my S&W & Ruger and even a Llama revolvers and they will not allow this cylinder disengagement to happen. I also have a 5 shot 9mm Taurus 2 inch revolver and it will not allow this cylinder disengagement. There is a lifetime guarantee on all my Taurus firearms so I can easily ship them back to the factory and get it fixed. If it needs fixing. Heck, it might be normal for Taurus revolvers to do this.
Any comments or advice? YOu might want to try this on all your revolvers.
Now this is very unlikely to ever happen unless I make it happen. Because there is only a milli-second as the trigger moves back to its normal, ready position, that the cylinder stop will move enough to allow the cylinder to disengage. In other words, in the real world of actually firing the revolvers it is highly unlikely for this situation to ever occur on its own. However, I am not comfortable with this situation.
I checked my S&W & Ruger and even a Llama revolvers and they will not allow this cylinder disengagement to happen. I also have a 5 shot 9mm Taurus 2 inch revolver and it will not allow this cylinder disengagement. There is a lifetime guarantee on all my Taurus firearms so I can easily ship them back to the factory and get it fixed. If it needs fixing. Heck, it might be normal for Taurus revolvers to do this.
Any comments or advice? YOu might want to try this on all your revolvers.
Comments
My Smiths go one way and my Colts go the other...That's just how they are made...
I don't think that that is what he was asking...his revolver cylinder will slip and turn when the trigger is pulled, it is common with Taurus revolvers, there are two brand new Taurus revolvers in my local dealers case that will do the same thing. The cylinder stop bolt spring may be weak or the notches on the cylinder are not cut right. Poor quality control, they should not leave the factory like that.
However, I still wonder if this is a bad or dangerous "defect?". Also, should I expect Taurus to reimburse me for the cost of the shipping or is that normally on me, the customer?
Anybody got any opinions?
quote:Originally posted by William81
My Smiths go one way and my Colts go the other...That's just how they are made...
I don't think that that is what he was asking...his revolver cylinder will slip and turn when the trigger is pulled, it is common with Taurus revolvers, there are two brand new Taurus revolvers in my local dealers case that will do the same thing. The cylinder stop bolt spring may be weak or the notches on the cylinder are not cut right. Poor quality control, they should not leave the factory like that.
Actually, I think it is something entirely different. From comparing the the cylinder stop bolt on several different brands of revolvers I have noticed a difference between them and the Taurus. With the Taurus, of course when the trigger is pulled the cylinder bolt top moves into the frame to disengage the cylinder notch so the cylinder can start to rotate. But unlike the other revovlers, when the trigger goes forward to return to normal, the bolt stop AGAIN moves into the frame. This means that if there is any pressure on the cylinder trying to turn it, it can and will move.
With the other revolvers the bolt stop DOES NOT MOVE enough to disengage the cylinder when the trigger moves forward to return to the normal position which means the cylinder cannot be moved.
Hey, everyone, check all your revolvers and let me know what yours do.
Perry, I disagree with your perspective as to whether the "cylinder disconnect" issue is a defect or not. I believe that it is a defect.
Comparing this issue to best practice in software development (and indeed any product development), proper testing and quality control by the manufacturer would/should have identified this problem during "Alpha" or "Beta" testing and the product would have been kicked back to the "developers". The bottom line is this: It is a "feature" that was not designed into the finished product for a particular purpose. Therefore it is a "bug" or defect.
Regardless of the odds of this cylinder disconnect issue cropping up in the gun during a life-threatening emergency, this is something the manufacturer should fix. Scenario: For instance, picture someone grabbing the weapon over the frame and around the cylinder while struggling with you. This could "trigger" the defect, moving the cylinder back a notch so on your next trigger pull, the hammer drops on an empty or already-fired chamber.
I would send the guns back for repair. I think you should also write down in super-minute detail what the defect is and how to duplicate it, including photos if you can. If they can't duplicate the problem they won't fix it. Include in your analysis document the fact that numerous other users of their products have experienced the same problem. I agree you should contact Taurus first to get them in the loop and you should ask them to send you a UPS call tag or whatever they use so they pay the shipping.
quote:You may think it is defect however the test you are useing is not the normal way the pistol is used and IMHO it is not a defect. quote:
Perry, I disagree with your perspective as to whether the "cylinder disconnect" issue is a defect or not. I believe that it is a defect.
Comparing this issue to best practice in software development (and indeed any product development), proper testing and quality control by the manufacturer would/should have identified this problem during "Alpha" or "Beta" testing and the product would have been kicked back to the "developers". The bottom line is this: It is a "feature" that was not designed into the finished product for a particular purpose. Therefore it is a "bug" or defect.
Regardless of the odds of this cylinder disconnect issue cropping up in the gun during a life-threatening emergency, this is something the manufacturer should fix. Scenario: For instance, picture someone grabbing the weapon over the frame and around the cylinder while struggling with you. This could "trigger" the defect, moving the cylinder back a notch so on your next trigger pull, the hammer drops on an empty or already-fired chamber.
I would send the guns back for repair. I think you should also write down in super-minute detail what the defect is and how to duplicate it, including photos if you can. If they can't duplicate the problem they won't fix it. Include in your analysis document the fact that numerous other users of their products have experienced the same problem. I agree you should contact Taurus first to get them in the loop and you should ask them to send you a UPS call tag or whatever they use so they pay the shipping.
Dang, Wolf, you came along and just about perfectly summed it up for me. Frankly better than I could have. I especially like that part about it not "being designed into the operation of the firearm" so that automatically makes it suspect as a "defect". I will contact Taurus about this but I would like to get some posts from some other members here and I will send a copy of this topic and responses to Taurus along with my letter. It might make convincing Taurus that what I described is a defect that should be fixed free of charge and they pay the shipping.
Wolf, I had thought about mentioning the "someone grabbing onto my firearm at the cylinder during a scuffle during a holdup, etc. and thereby making the cylinder rotate backwards (as least rotate out of alignment with the chamber and barrell) and then on my next attempt at a shot, the revolver would not fire because the cylinder had been rotated backwards. But I'm glad you mentioned it.
So can I get a few more posts from people who have a Taurus and have the same problem or at least agree what I have described IS A PROBLEM? Thanks.