Qualifying Standards for "Expert" in military?

cwinn

Heres a question for any current or former military personnel. I was curious as to what is required by a soldier to qualify for expert with the m16 rifle? What does the course/test consist of and what score has to be obtained? Or does anyone know of a website that gives the rundown on the test? My father couldnt recalled exaclty what he had to do to obtain this title and also thought the standards may have changed. Thanks guys

will270win

The Marine Corps now uses a hit or miss system from 200 to 500 yds. Use of the loop sling is now banned and it is much harder to qualify expert to most. We now have a new pistol course coming that is supposed to be tough. Good, I like a challenge.


~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
Will270win@nraonline.com

aglore

When I was in the Marine Corps a long time ago, the course of fire was 200, 300 and 500 yards. Used the M14. Shot a 242 out of a possible 250(had one miss the 10 spot at 500)the last time I qualified with the M14, that was enough for expert. When I started shooting the M16, all I could do was Sharpshooter.

AlleninAlaska

Free men are not equal and equal men are not free

will270win

That's cause the M-14 is a better rifle.


~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
Will270win@nraonline.com

bullelk

will270win,
Have you ever heard of a course called Train Fire, This was back in the late 50's?? It was about silhouette targets and it was in the era when the Army started measuring in meters.

bullelk



Edited by - bullelk on 07/21/2002 22:35:11

beachmaster73

On the Navy course shooting 10 rounds 200 yard offhand, 10 rounds 200 yard rapid sitting, 10 rounds 300 yard rapid prone, and 20 rounds 600 yard prone slow fire....you have to score a minimum of 400 out of 500 possible. For the .45 pistol(since we haven't yet bought into the POS Beretta) you have to score 225 out of 300 possible with 10 rounds slow fire at 50 yards, 10 rounds timed fire at 25 yards and 10 rounds rapid fire at 25 yards. Beach

4GodandCountry

When I was stationed at Fort Sill OK. we had one range with pop-up silouette targets from 50 to 500 meters and another with stationary target. The pop-ups were fun but were flawed because you could hit dirt in front of target and the dirt flying could cause the target to register a hit. Also the targets were not changed after each shooter fired so bullets could pass through holes and not register. When I was stationed in Korea, we only qualified on stationary targets and I allways shot expert. Also when we went to sea-range near chejido island and live fired the 50 cal. and M-60 at real radio controled planes. Myself and one other guy from Pa. are the only ones in the whole battery that scored knock out hits. It was a blast, some of the best times where at the range.

When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....

nmyers

Bullelk, I qualified with the M14 on an Army Train Fire course in 1964. Silhouette targets were at 100, 200, & 300 yards (not meters).

We also had a module called Target Detection, which was soon discontinued with the adoption of the M16. Apparently the concept of identifying a target, determining its range, and shooting it was deemed obsolete.

Neal

bullelk

Neal,

Back in the late 50's, I was sent to Fort Devens to learn the Train Fire course so I could be an instructor in it. We were using M1's then. I dug into my old stuff and found the Manual titled Rifle Marksmanship Course Train Fire 1.

This is a sentence in one of the paragraphs, and shows an illustration of the range.

Chapter 25, sect.a
Field firing is conducted on a field firing range at pop-up targets which appear at ranges of 75, 175 and 300 meters (fig 13).

I know when we were shooting at the regular ranges, they were still in yards. If I'm wrong, I stand to be corrected. I left in 1963.

bullelk



Edited by - bullelk on 07/22/2002 12:44:24

joeaf1911a1

I dont know about know now, but took my advanced Infantry trainng in
Camp Howze TX in mid '44 using the M-1. I believed we qualified after
many range days with 50 rds. 10 rds off hand (no sling) 200 yds, 10 rds
sustained fire kneeling, with sling, 10 rds sustained fire, with sling
in prone, and 20 rds slow fire at 300 yds with sling. This was the
qualifying course for record. Scoring was similar to the NRA National
Match Course for marksman, sharpshooter or expert. We also fired the
UKD course (unknown disance) with popup target from 75 yds to 300
yds along with 500 yd firing. These were not for qualifying. In the
6 week course each of fired between 500 to 750 rds in the M-1 plus
the fimiliarization course with the .45 pistol, carbine, grenade
launcher on the rifle, the B.A.R., Thompson, light .30 M.G. and the
Bazooka plus the hand grenade. Must admit I only made sharpshooter,
not expert. I feel that we were well trained (maybe I was lucky) in
weaponry, and hope that todays troopers are as well trained in weaponry as we were, prior to going into combat as replacements into
beat up Divisions overseas.

mcbab

I recently qualified sharpshooter with the Army 3 years ago, and since only had to qualify with the Beretta nine.
I can hardly believe some of the posts about shooting man-sized targets at 500 to 600 yds. without the use of a scope. At 300 meters the iron sights almost hide the target! The best I recollect is that the targets pop-up for a sort amount of time(no more than ten seconds for multiple target engagements) from ranges of 50 to 300 meters.
You are given about 50 to 60 rounds, and to qualify expert, you have to hit 36 of 40.

bullelk

mcbab,
I take it you're a young guy. I'd say in your early 20's.
Well, when I was your age, I could spot a gnat taking a crap at a 1000 yards. We had no problem sighting in at 600 yards with the M1. And the bullseye is enlarged so it looks like it would at 200 yards. Now that I'm in my 60's, I couldn't see a 2000 pound moose without my glasses. And can't hear worth a crap either.

My advise is to take damn good care of your eyes and ears.


"If All Else fails, Read The Directions"

robsguns

mcbab,
Well, thats why the Corps is known throughout the world for its shooting abilities... Where the Army leaves off at 300 yds. is where the Corps is just warming up. I really think you need to try it before you knock it, it aint THAT hard. I also find it odd that once qualafied with your rifle you no longer need to qualify each year. Another reason why the Corps is better suited to the job of longer range shooting, we must qualify every year no matter what your score was the previous year, that applies to the pistol also. Familiararity(?) with your weapon is only achieved through constant practice, with that practice comes skillful manipulation of the weapon's capabilities. Just as a hunter with one gun is dangerous, so is the trained soldier who uses his gun regularly and with precision practice. 500-600 yds. a long shot? Nah, its not even a fair chance for the enemy.

SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC